Manish Tandon(manish@Cadence.COM) writes:
>Sorry to pitch in you stride, here is some exercise for your little brain,
Thanks for the kind words!
>Bhagavad Gita 7.15
> na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah
> mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah
> "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are the lowest
> among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who
> partake of the atheistic nature of deamons do not surrender
> unto Me."
>Since as per the Bhagavad Gita, Vivekananda is an IDIOT, so that is it.
That is how Fatwas are ordered and fanaticism is breeded. Anything that you
do not understand or disagree with, you can quote a verse and declare that the
other one is wrong! And if anyone asks for reason, logic, say that is because
you quoted one verse from Gita and "that is it"!!! Neither you understand
Bhagavad Gita nor Vivekananda. You think surrendering to Lord is mere physical
bow in front of the idol and at the same time indulging in slandering others,
abusing and mud-slinging without understanding?? Is that the meaning of
surrender??? Is not "Jana" Seva "Janardhana Seva"?? You analyse.
>We DO NOT say a word without the authority of the Bhagavad Gita.
Who is this royal "We"?? Do you represent any cult?? The same Gita says
"Anudvega karam Vakyam, Saytam Priya hitham chayeth, Swadhyaaya Bhyasanam
chaivya Vangmayam Tapamuchyathe", and what you speak of, and slander of
and categorise of others as "idiots, little brain" etc. does not in the
least degree qualify to the verse in the Gita. You honestly conclude how much
you say and follow according to the authority of Gita, and dont delude yourself.
>Later in your response (and also in your responses on s.r.e.) you have said
>that you dont accept Krishna, Chaitanya, Jesus etc. as authority, so for such
>a person, spiritual proofs are out of question, although I have cited some
>in my other responses to you on s.r.e.
Great reading comprehension skills! If you cannot understand plain
statements made in English, how can you even claim to understand the
lofty and profound utterances of Lord with deep significances in Gita???
For your benefit, let me cut and paste the sentences I wrote:
"I am not proposing anyone to blindly believe any one, be it Vivekananda,
Chaitanya, Krishna or Jesus, but only pointing that baseless and proofless
conclusions coupled with slandering is very mean, disgusting and degrading."
Check yourself please!
>As for logic or empirical, I can cite as many as you like (read AS MANY AS YOU
>LIKE) to show WHY Vivekananda was an agnostic and WHY agnosticism is wrong.
Good. There are equal number of references available to the contrary, and you
also read as many as you can, that show why Vivekananda is NOT an agnostic.
> EATING MEAT being one of the epitomes of the subtlities of the
> loftiness of the benevolance of this greatly renounced soul.
Yes, he did eat meat. But only to save his body in inclement weather when
he came here such that, he can serve thereafter. It is not that he ordered
in restaurant, is it?? Also is, not eating meat such a great virtue??
There are many animals which dont eat, and what matters more is what does one do
after eating. If I eat vegatables only, and with the energy I get, I curse
others, yell at others as "ignorant, idiots, little brains" instead of helping
or serving anyone, what kind of motive is that?? Is that any better??
|> it takes more than language and even concepts and ideology to inspire
|> and uplift generations of people who still continue to get succor,
|> solace and guidance from the fountain of his teachings.
>and a lot of foolish people also continue to get succor, solace and guidance
>from the fountain of the teachings of Bhagavan Rajneesh, Sai Baba and other
Vivekananda never had any personality cult like others. He never showed any
Sidhis or magic or lured any by such promises either. Also, if someone gets
help from someone, as long as he does not do any harm to society, or loot
anyone, what does it matter what the source is?? Who are *YOU* to judge
others and classify them?? Dont jump that Gita does it, just remember the
Vishwa-roopa of Krishna when He uttered Gita. All the Kauravas, the Past
Future and Present were all in His own embodiment, and if it is so, what is
it that is different from Him?? And who can stand apart from Him?? Is there
anything other than Him??? From that standpoint, if you see, these are
petty, paltry distinctions you and I make and has no bearing to what
Gita so clearly describes as Krishna's form.
|> I am not proposing anyone to blindly believe any one, be it Vivekananda,
|> Chaitanya, Krishna or Jesus,
>The word HYPOCRITE comes to mind.
Good. We see things only as we are.
>Hypocrites try to say that they are religious without accepting ANY authority.
Why do you want to agonise about what OTHERS do? Why can't we think for
ourselves in the light of Gita??? Are you sure that you are so flawless as to
spend time in analysing what others are?? Gita is a manual for Arjuna within
US to act and grow and not a book that can be used for judging OTHERS.
|> but only pointing that baseless and proofless conclusions coupled with
|> slandering is very mean, disgusting and degrading. The attitude of "I alone
|> am right and whosoever tells otherwise are ignorant and idiots", is at best,
|> a fanaticism and utter bankruptcy of your intellectual ability.
>The attitude that "I will NOT accept anyone as final authority, rather I will
>use my own whims to interpret the scriptures as and when I feel like or is
>needed to show my relegiocity" is at best agnosticism and utter bankruptcy
>of your intellectual ability.
Mis-reading is one of the dangerous perils in any discussion. Also what do
you mean by "authority"?? Surrendering of ones own questioning ability
is what you meant by "authority"??? Even Krishna encouraged Arjuna to ask
questions and only when he finally understood it did Arjuna act it out.
If you think one should stop questioning, then probably you are in wrong
group, and you can try that with other religions but not with Hinduism.
All Upanishads are in direct question-answer form between student and master
including Gita, UNTIL students gets convinced. There is no question of
"whims" here. If Lord gave man intelligence, it must be for right reason and
not to just surrender it! But you have full freedom not to use it, and decry
everyone with whom you disagree with as "agnostics" and "WRONG" and "IDIOT"
etc., Even in Science, it takes great courage and honesty to ones own
convictions to examine others' analysis and data for evaluating Truth. And if
that is so, what to say of the Subjective Science of Vedanta??