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Re: Dishonesty (was Re: The Bhagavad-Geeta - Chapter 12)
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Subject: Re: Dishonesty (was Re: The Bhagavad-Geeta - Chapter 12)
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From: aq974@lafn.org (Bon Giovanni)
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Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 21:54:41 GMT
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Apparently-To: alt-hindu@relay1.uu.net
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From news@lafn.org Fri Aug 4 17: 45:10 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
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References: <3v9ak6$d0e@babbage.ece.uc.edu>
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Reply-To: aq974@lafn.org (Bumblin' Bon)
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Sender: news@lafn.org
/\ ___ ___ /\
____/_ \____ (__ _ * |__ ) _ ____/_ \____
\ ___\ \ /_ __)(_|_ |_ | \__ (_|_ |\/|___\ \ /
\/ / \/ / \/ / \/ /
/ /\__/_/\ / /\__/_/\
/__\ \_____\ /__\ \_____\
\ / \ /
\/ Grant O Heavenly Father that the \/
children of Israel shall no longer
be harassed and humiliated, and may
lay aside the wanderer's staff- that
they may find shelter and serenity and
dwell in their homes unafraid, honoured
for their virtues, trusted for their
loyalty and integrity, respected for
their traditions and ideals...
- Avodah, Yom Kippur
Baruch HaShem
*+*
Long ago I lived in a Jewish community, and heard prayers like that in
English and in Yiddish. Thanks to those days, I have great empathy with
those who suffer prejudice for their religious beliefs. It is one
reason I so honour Sri Sathya Sai Baba, who shows respect and honour to
all faiths. Thanks to such example, I strive to be sure that in my
witless ways I do not harass nor humiliate any faith, even should I
myself feel harassed by sectarians. Sometimes I fail, but even
failure reinforces my desire to become a kind person.
For example, in a previous article, vivek@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda
Pai) called me a liar. I wrote a reply, which was blocked by the
moderators at alt.hindu. Stunned, I twice asked the moderators in
private how it is they permitted the airing of the post wherein I am
accused of lying, but deny me the chance to show I am not. Their
singular reply was that they do the best they can.
An honest answer.
When things like that happen, or when my will meets firm resistance, I
make myself wait, breathe, and note Whose Hand is at work.
Thus I have decided I will not address Pai's assertion that I am a
liar. Instead, I ask that Pai either post the full conversation, thus
showing whether I am as he says, or else rest easy in his laurels.
That will serve my intent even better than anything I could say.
To other matters:
Pai goes on to say he believes
>... that the BBT granted permission for small passages to
>be quoted from the Bhagavad Gita As It Is as long as the copyright
>notice was also attached. Since they have already stated their
>wish, it seems foolish and ill-mannered not to comply with so
>simple a wish.
I recall that to ISKCONites all men are fools, so am not surprised he
finds me foolish, but I do regret that Pai finds me ill-mannered, since
I hold good manners to be a benchmark among spiritual persons.
Nevertheless, without regret I believe Pai mistakes the wish of the BBT
for his own, and that Pai is mistaken further, for two reasons. First,
I believe he is mistaken because quoting a small passage may well
`require' full attribution by a teacher for a student's school paper,
but that is not the case in a conversation outside school among
graduates, away from pedants. Secondly, I believe he is mistaken
because at alt.religion.vaisnava t'was recently remarked that when
expressing a critical comment about someone, the name should NOT be
mentioned. Vaishnavas at arv applauded that as good manners. Hence,
since the quote I mentioned was critically discussed, it follows that
naming the author is not fitting Pai's ideas of manners.
Yes, I am teasing in order to show how manners can be used to masque
intent. For the most part, the real reason I often do not not post
attribution when quoting a sentence or two, is because I believe
readers know full well to whom I refer, and saying so but breaks the
flow. I do not break the flow. So, perhaps were Pai speaking of only
student papers, or of strict scholarly debate, then his point might
hold. In online conversation however, his call for attribution
attribution attribution at the mention of even a single quoted
sentence, doth appear to me as pedantic. I believe his only point in
his ongoing request that all make attribution paramount is _only_ to
get as much publicity as possible for his sect. I say that since I have
never ever seen Pai ask for attribution for any other copyright holder
than BBT.
That said, I again say that should any officer of the BBT ever advise
me that quoting BRIEF sections requires any such attribution, I would
of course comply.
Reading that the first time round, Pai sighed and posted the request
from BBT to all devotees.
I delight that Pai has at last accepted me as a devotee, (in that the
BBT article he posted is addressed specifically to devotees), and note
too that request to devotees specifically regards quotes used by them
when intended for educational purposes. It is my opinion that means
`for preaching purposes.' Since I do not preach for ISKCON, and since
members of the BBT have read my posts and yet have not asked me to post
any attribution with my brief passages, I again suggest that Pai need
not concern himself about that copyright issue any further. Those with
authority are apprised of the situation, and so he can rest easy.
Of course, should he or anyone else prefer to be concerned further
about copyright, that's just fine with Bon. I note who is and who is
not the copyright owner, and so do not accord concern myself with any
undue authority in this matter. Should that give rise to a feeling of
constraint, or resistance, then merrily merrily Bon sayeth unto all:
let us stop, breathe, and consider Whose Hand is at work here.
*+*
--
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
Whatever a fine person does, so will others do; people effect behaviour
by example. -Bhagavad Gita 3:21
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%**%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%**%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
