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Learning about Hinduism (was Re: Shri H. K. Surla's...

Vivek Sadananda Pai (vivek@cs.rice.edu) wrote:

: In article <3g9b33$7jn@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, griffin@gate.net (Kris Gilbert) writes:
: [...]
: |> I have recently been looking into ISKCON and trying to learn about 
: |> Hinduism. 

: May I suggest that what you have said is somewhat a contradiction in
: terms. I say so because of the following: Hinduism is a blanket term
: that includes the Vaishnavas (ISKCON as well as other groups). The
: Vaishnavas are essentially monotheists who believe only in Vishnu in
: His various forms. So while a Hindu may say that (for example) Kali
: is the supreme goddess, etc, a Vaishnav will not.

Hi Vivek,
Thanks for your reply. you've given me some of the answers i was looking 
for. What other kinds of groups (besides Vaishnavas) are there under the 
blanket term "Hinduism"? That might be a good place for me to start. 

: So if you are trying to learn of the plurality of Hinduism, you are
: indeed going to have a hard time. For example, many Hindus believe
: that Ramakrishna was a great leader, etc. But the followers of 
: Ramakrishna assert that he was God, something I'm sure that many
: Hindus would not believe. It's the same way in a lot of areas - 
: there's always going to be a group of "traditional Hindus" who will
: not believe what some smaller subset of Hindus believes. 

Ok, i see what you mean. How do the differing groups in Hinduism view 
each other's differences? (i.e. do they consider the differences "evil" 
and label the other belief systems as "not *really* Hindu"? or is there 
some mutual respect, even if they disagree strongly on some issues?) I've 
heard of Hinduism described as an "orthopraxy" rather than an "orthodoxy" 
(like Christianity, Jusaism, and Islam might be described). What was 
meant by this was that Hindus had similar ways of approaching God(s), 
similar practices, rather than one set "orthodox" belief system. Is this 
accurate? 

: I'd like to paraphrase a little since I don't have exact quotations
: handy. I hope you'll forgive me for being vague. Swami Prabhupada was
: always accomodating regarding the nature of other prophets. For example,
: he has said that Jesus was a pure devotee of the Lord, and he has been
: equally favorable to all of the other major prophets. 

OK, here's a question: How do we know who the "major prophets" were? Is 
it just because they are famous? What if the teachings contradict each other?

: I believe he made
: a statement to the effect of "we want people of other religions to follow
: what their prophets have preached". All of these prophets were sent by
: God to different people at different times to tell them what they were
: capable of understanding. Hence, you have different faiths for different
: people. Prabhupada basically said if you follow a certain prophet, follow 
: his message completely, not just the parts of it that you want to hear.

I can see his point, in regards to "selective listening" that happens
with some people when they get into religion. On the other hand, given
that the prophets were human, and not infallable, isn't it possible that
they may have made some mistakes? If it's possible that they could have,
then a blind obedience to their message IMO is not warranted. The way i
see it, the different assertions in that person's teaching need to be
thought over and carefully judged, piece by piece. It's possible that
some pieces may be found to be true, and some false. (I can give you
examples of this with Jesus' teachings, since i'm familiar with them.)
And if even one piece in a system of teachings contradicts what you
understand to be true, i can understand not following that particular
precept, even though you may eagerly follow the other parts of the
system. This isn't quite the same as "taking only what you like," because 
upon honest reflection, i'm sure you'd have to admit to some truths that 
you really don't like that much... "hard truths" as it were. 
Do you understand what i'm getting at?  What are your thoughts on this?
 
: ISKCON is nothing more than the extension of Gaudiya Vaishnavism into
: the west. Gaudiya Vaishnavism started with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in
: Bengal about 500 years ago, so perhaps this will ease your fear of "newness".
: Plus, if you go to India, you will find that ISKCON is fairly well
: respected there, and Indian people attend the temples there in large numbers.

I'm aware of those things, but i've heard it speculated that somehow the
Hindu traditions changed subtly when brought to the U.S. (maybe when they
meshed with the different culture?) and so while it may be very similar,
it's not quite the same thing as in India. Has anyone else heard this? I
don't know enough about Chaitanya or Indian Vaishnavaism to know if this
is true or not.  (BTW, i'm not at all fearful of "newness." :) All
religious doctrines had to be "new" at some point. :) I'm more concerned
about whether or not éÈ)F×sÈn : |> inquiring into those "reputations" and
have in fact found some of them to : |> be false, at least from what i've
seen.) : |> In any case, I will probably continue to look into Hinduism,
although : |> since i've discovered this newsgroup, i may not look to
ISKCON as much : |> for answers.  40`Ê : The nature of the answers you get
from ISKCON and this group will be : vastly different, based on the
philosophies represented. If you're : looking for the Vaishnav point of
view, ISKCON is the best place to : go and alt.religion.vaishnav is a
newgroup where Vaishnavs hang out. : If you're looking for the opinions of
a (unrepresentative) sample of : Hindus, this group is a decent choice,
but be forewarned that much of : what you will hear will be contradictory.
If you're looking for a : truly representative group of "Hindus", take a
trip to India. You will : find that the average Hindu is quickly becoming
as spiritually connected : as the average American - most people now
worship the almighty rupee. H	
$$$& 4"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""ª<U¼üìåñLxÈ&dH%È
: -Vivek
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