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Higher Planets (was Re: God and Demigods)
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Subject: Higher Planets (was Re: God and Demigods)
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From: manish@cadence.com (Manish Tandon)
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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 16:01:36 GMT
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Apparently-To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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From news@cadence.com Tue Dec 27 10: 52:15 1994
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
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Sender: news@cadence.com
srinivas@Glue.umd.edu (Nagulapalli Srinivas) wrote:
several attemps to explain the straightforward logic of the Bhagavad Gita
to this great scholar/philosopher/scientist/vivekananda admirer have
failed in the past, but we never give up...
|> Also, what is "higher planet" in an endless void of space and vaccuum???
|> Just as any planet that we know of has limits and boundaries, you think
|> Kailas also has space-problems and will issue Non-resident visas for
|> visitors!!! Forgive me for the parody, but I could not resist.
First of all, there is NO void to begin with.
The "endless void of space and vaccuum" reflects the shoonyavadi Buddhist
idea which is not supported by Vedanta.
The material world is very real, maya only implies that it is transitory,
i.e. keeps changing in shape and size/manifested and unmanifested. Also,
Vedic scriptures clearly tell that the world is divided into lower, middle,
and upper planetry system. Beyond the material world (seemingly endless
array of Universes) lies the Spiritual World which is not bound by space
and time and is Eternal.
Kailash, the planet of Lord Siva lies within this material world, it is
a higher planet and that is what the scriptures tell. You are free to
reject the scripture and create your own version or follow the hedonistic
doctrine of Vivekananda.
|> If you REALLY believe in the Vishwa-roopa of Krishna, where Past,
|> Present, Future, all beings and Universe existed, I beg you to tell
|> me what is different from Krishna??
If you read the BG, you will know that the Vishwaroopa was a display of
merely a fraction of the energies of Lord Krishna.
Past, present, future only exist in the material world. In the spiritual
world, there is no past, present, or future and there, great devotees of the
Lord eternaly and perpetually worship Krishna (or other forms of Vishnu)
and He receprocate similarly.
Nothing is qualitatively different from Krishna but that does not mean that
Krishna does not have an independent existence beyond the innumerable
jivas and universes.
BG 15.7 mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah-sasthanindriyani prakriti-sthani karsati
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal
fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling
very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
All this was explained very clearly by Krishna Himself when He appeared
as Lord Chaitanya in the 'acintya bhedabheda tattva'-- simultaneous oneness
and difference.
|> We never want to agree that Truth is One and what does it matter what
|> label sticker you put on it, be it Krishna or Rama or Shiva or Jesus???
So Krishna, Rama, etc are label stickers??
Sorry to tell you again that this is called ATHEISM to say the least and
only puffed-up ignorant pagans like Vivekananda propound such corrupt views,
unfortunately in Kali-yuga, there are so many of them.
|> Who are we, who did not reach the level of ego-lessness to even
|> imagine that the Grandest Truth may not be in the realms of the limited
|> intelligence and how can the brain understand the mind of its own Creator,
|> decree which path is indirect and which path is direct???!!!!
1. The existence of the _self_ is axiomatic and you have to accept that it
exists even to prove that it does not exist. example "I will now prove
that my-self does not exist", who is this "I"?
There is no such thing/stage as "ego-lessness". Ego implies existence
(of the self), which is real and Lord Krishna says in the BG,
'jiva bhuta sanatanah' i.e. the living entities are eternal.
"ego-lessness" or nirvana is again Buddhist idea. Don't mix the logic
of BG with the voidistic philosophy.
2. We certainly cannot understand the mind of the creator who is Lord
Krishna Himself with our own mind and that is why we take His words
literally, and I quote again,
BG 18.55 bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yaschasmi tatvatah
tatomam tatvato ghanatva vishate tad antaram
He clearly says that _only_ His devotees can understand Him as He is,
and here is how Lord Krishna describes bhakti and bhakta:
BG 9.14 satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya nitya-yukta upasate
"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination,
bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me."
Have you tried to understand Him the way He said one should?
If not, all that you said is merely a figment of your brain or someone
else's brain, both of which are limited.
|> ...and hence Lord Krishna showed Arjuna His Vishwaroopa, because Arjuna
|> also like us may get confused about Lord's own words as to what exactly
|> He meant!! We can fight for long as to what exactly it is, but for Arjuna
|> after seeing Vishwaroopa, it was easy to get cleared up.
This proves once again that you have NEITHER read NOR understood the BG.
FYI, Arjuna was very perturbed after seeing the Vishwaroopa of Krishna
and he requested Him to show His normal form again, which Lord Krishna
did. And, Lord Krishna after appearing in His Two-armed form again told
Arjuna that that is His eternal form which is visible only to His devotees.
Please read the complete Ch 11 of the BG before posting such blatant lies.
|> -Srinivas Nagulapalli
