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Saints and Swindlers (Part 3 of 4)
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To: alt-hindu@cis.ohio-state.edu
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Subject: Saints and Swindlers (Part 3 of 4)
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From: susarla@rice.edu (H. Krishna Susarla)
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Date: 20 Jan 1995 23:21:35 GMT
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From news@larry.rice.edu Fri Jan 20 18: 09:04 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Saints and Swindlers
>From the book "The Science of Self Realization"
By His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
(c) 1984 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International
Used with permission
Part 3 of 4
Srila Prabhupada: Are you under the impression that spiritual life
means voluntarily accepting poverty ?
Reporter: Well, I don't know.
Srila Prabhupada: A poverty-stricken man may be materialistic, and a
wealthy man may be very spiritual. Spiritual life does not depend on
either poverty or wealth. Spiritual life is transcendental. Consider
Arjuna, for instance. Arjuna was a member of a royal family, yet he was
a pure devotee of God. And in the Bhagavad-gita [4.2] Sri Krsna says,
evam parampara imam rajarsayo viduh: "This supreme science was
received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings
understood it in that way." In the past, all kings who were saintly
understood spiritual science. Therefore, spiritual life does not depend
on one's material condition. Whatever a person's material condition
may be, he may be a king or a pauper - he can still understand spiritual
life. Generally people do not know what spiritual life is, and therefore,
they unnecessarily criticize us. If I asked you what spiritual life is, how
would you answer?
Reporter: Well, I'm not sure.
Srila Prabhupada: Although you do not know what spiritual life is, you
still say, "It is this," or "It is that." But first you should know what
spiritual life is. Spiritual life begins when you understand that you are
not your body. This is the real beginning of spiritual life. By seeing the
difference between your self and your body, you come to understand
that you are spirit soul (aham brahmasmi).
Reporter: Do you think this knowledge should be a part of everyone's
education ?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. People should first be taught what they are. Are
they their bodies, or something else ? That is the beginning of
education. Now everyone is educated to think he is his body. Because
someone accidentally gets an American body, he thinks, "I am an
American." This is just like thinking, "I am a red shirt," just because you
are wearing a red shirt. You are not a red shirt; you are a human being.
Similarly, this body is like a shirt or coat over the real person - the
spirit soul. If we recognize ourselves simply by our bodily "shirt" or
"coat," then we have no spititual education.
Reporter: Do you think that such education should be given in schools?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes - in schools, colleges, and universities. There is
an immense literature on this subject - an immense fund of knowledge.
What is actually required is that the leaders of society come forward to
understand this movement.
Reporter: Have you ever had people come to you who had previously
been involved with a fake guru ?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, there are many.
Reporter: Were their spiritual lives in any way spoiled by the fake gurus
?
Srila Prabhupada: No, they were genuinely seeking something spiritual,
and that was their qualification. God is within everyone's heart, and as
soon as someone genuinely seeks Him, He helps that person find a
genuine guru.
Reporter: Have the real gurus like yourself ever tried to put a stop to
the false gurus - that is, put pressure on them to put them out of
business, so to speak ?
Srila Prabhupada: No, that is not my purpose. I started my movement
simply by chanting Hare Krsna. I chanted in New York in a place called
Tompkins Square Park, and soon people began to come to me. In this
way, the Krsna consciousness movement gradually developed. Many
accepted, and many did not acecpt. Those who are fortunate have
accepted.
Reporter: Don't you feel that people are suspicious because of their
experience with fake gurus ? If you went to a quack dentist and he
broke your tooth, you might be suspicious about going to another
dentist.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Naturally, if you are cheated, you become
suspicious. But this does not mean that if you are cheated once, you will
always be cheated. You should find someone genuine. But to come to
Krsna consciousness, you must be either very fortunate or well aware of
this science. From the Bhagavad-gita we understand that the genuine
seekers are very few: manusyanam sahasresu kaascid yatati siddhaye.
Out of many millions of people, there may be only one who is
interested in spiritual life. Generally, people are interested in eating,
sleeping, mating, and defending. So how can we expect to find many
followers ? It is not difficult to notice that people have lost their
spiritual interest. And almost all those who are actually interested are
being cheated by so-called spiritualists. You cannot judge a movement
simply by the number of its followers. If one man is genuine, then the
movement is successful. It is not a question of quantity, but quality.
Reporter: I wondered how many people you think might have been
taken in by fake gurus.
Srila Prabhupada: Practically everyone. [Laughter.] There is no question
of counting. Everyone.
Reporter: This would mean thousands of people, woldn't it ?
Srila Prabhupada: Millions. Millions have been cheated because they
want to be cheated. God is omniscient. He can understand your desires.
He is within your heart, and if you want to be cheated, God sends you a
cheater.
Reporter: Is it possible for everyone to attain the perfectional stage you
spoke of previously ?
Srila Prabhupada: Within a second. Anyone can attain perfection within
a second - providing he is willing. The difficulty is that no one is willing.
In the Bhagavad-gita [18.66] Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja: "Simply surrender unto Me." But who is
going to surrender to God ? Everyone says, "Oh, why should I surrender
to God ? I will be independent." If you simply surrender, it is a second's
business. That's all. But no one is willing and that is the difficulty.
(continued)
