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Re: A few questions
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To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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Subject: Re: A few questions
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From: seshadri@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Raghu Seshadri)
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Date: 10 Jul 1995 18:19:32 GMT
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From news@hpindda.cup.hp.com Mon Jul 10 14: 08:16 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Information Networks Division: Hewlett Packard
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References: <3ti2qk$43c@babbage.ece.uc.edu>
From: adep@netcom.com (akilesh deperalta)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: A few questions
-One of the core concepts of Hinduism is the concept of Moksha, or
-salvation from the cycles of rebirth. The reason we are reborn is the
-fact that we still have Karma on our souls, and this needs to be taken
-care of before we are done with the mortal world. Also, out initial
-stature in the world(intellect, family, disposition, environment in
-general) is determined by the type of Karma we had on our souls last time
-we were here. Correct?
Correct.
-However, in the very FIRST cycle of rebirths, when we were first put on
-here, did we not start out with a clean slate? If there was no Karma at
-that time, why were we on the planet in the first place. If there was
-good Karma on our souls at that time, did we not all start out smart and
-devoted to god? If ALL of us were like that, I see no reason why anyone
-would tilt to the other side. If we started out with bad Karma, why?
-Isn't god benevolent? Also, why were we put on the world in the first
-place?
These questions miss one vital point - in the Vedic view,
God, the individual Atman, the Universe are all without
beginning and without end - they had no beginning in time,
and they will have no finite end. So there never was
a time when the Atman had its "first" birth - we have
all had infinite births, and barring Nirvana or mukti,
will have infinite ones in the future.
I agree that such a teaching is literally mind-blowing;
I couldn't tell you how we could come to be, without a
precise beginning for our cycle of births. But the
Veda stresses that even time and space are mere artifacts
of this universe, and the eternal verities are beyond
concepts like time. And you should agree that when
concepts like time are not existent, it makes no sense
to talk about beginnings and ends.
In this eternal wheel, which has no beginning and no end,
all points have the same status, just as all points
in a circle could be conceived as the start of the
circle, the middle or the end ! In actuality, they are
none of those things !
To summarize, there never was a time when God,
the individual Self or the physical Universe
and Karma didn't exist ...
As to the benevolence of God, and the purpose of
our creation, the karma we were born with etc -
the Veda says( in its most beautiful and
mystic Nasadiya Sukta) that in the beginning
was Being, one without a second. Due to Kama
(desire), it wanted to have companions and then
sought to multiply. This desire for multiplicity
resulted in the birth of the Universe. Since
there was none other than Being, what companions
could it have ? It thus sacrificed Itself,
and from its parts was the Universe born.
Thus all of us and the rest of the Universe are
only parts of this Being, whom anthropomorphically
we conceive of as God.
Thus we have no "purpose" but to be, to experience,
to grow, to feel, to enjoy, to create, to
procreate, to take in everything that this
Universe consists of thru our sensory and
extra-sensory knowledge...finally when we
realize our oneness with all the constituents
of the Universe and thus with Being, we lose
consciousness of our separateness and get one
with It again ...
This non-purpose may come as a surprise to
people reared on the notion that everything
has to have some purpose - the Veda specifically
observes that "before there was purpose, there
was life" :-) Thus the Veda would seem to reject
the conventional notion that our purpose
is to keep praising this God till he is pleased,
and all that sort of conventional religion.
This non-purpose is emphasized by saying that
all this is merely a "lila" (play) of God -
there is no stern purpose. The idea is most
beautifully brought out in the couplet -
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream
Merily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.
Except that the Veda does not say life is a dream in
the sense that it is an illusion; but that experiencing
it is the important thing, not achieving some grand
purpose.
- What's the purpose of our lives? Just to get salvation? It
-seems, quite frankly, pointless. What do you think? I have been
-wondering about this for some time now and am hoping some of you have
-answers.
I hope I have some shed some light on the
subject of your questions. All objective-based actions
ARE pointless; in any pilgrimage, the point is
not to reach the place, but the experiences, the
growth, the fun one has during the journey.
That is why Krishna advises that we hand over
the "stern" things like the fruit of the action,
the ownership of the action etc to him, and travel
light, merely experiencing life and its works.
That is as close to a purpose this life has.
RS
