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Praying out loud
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Disciplining all the channels of sense-foods, the wise man
should dwell in union intent on Me. He whose senses are thus
subjugated is steady in wisdom.
-Bhagavad Geetaa 2:61
John Hislop is my friend, and has showed me much kindness. Years ago
when I was having many spiritual confusions, he lived next door to me
at the ashram, and was a fount of insight and inspiration. Now Hislop
is an old, old man. Recently Swami let me know Hislop is dying of
cancer. The old man never told me.
His sister-in-law, Grace, called me to let me know she had just
returned from a visit, and that he was alert and free of pain. She
related how two months back she was in India and Swami assured her that
the old man would suffer no pain whatsoever. I was not surprised for I
heard a story years ago from an amazed doctor who had been forced to
operate on Hislop in an emergency situation, sans anesthesia. The
doctor knew from long experience that the pain must be unendurable and
yet the man lay there under the knife absolutely still. I asked Jack if
Swami had numbed the pain, and Jack said, `No, not on that occasion."
Then Jack how did you manage? He smiled and said sotto voce, "Well, as
the President of the American Sai Organization I could not very well
scream and flail about, could I? Not only would that have been a poor
example for others, it would have made the poor surgeon's job even more
difficult."
For many such reasons, Hislop is considered by many to be a western
yogi, a man whose `senses are subjected to God.' Jack, as John is
called by his friends, retired some years ago, but continues to work on
his chosen tasks and replies in full to those who call on him for
advice. He is busy throughout the day.
Jack's spiritual career has been outlined in several books, and he is
now finishing his final novel. His history is varied, and covers many
disiciplines. When Jack was a young man he and his wife studied
Vipassana in a cave in Burma with a Buddhist monk. Later he met
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in India, and became His central officer in
America, preparing the way for His journey west. One night in Catalina
in the midst of a TM induced state of bliss, Jack intuited there was
more to transcendence and to bliss than TM developed. On the spot he
called on Maharishi, who was next door to him, and quit. He literally
packed his bags and moved on.
Soon thereafter Jack heard of Sri Sathya Sai Baba, and made plans to go
and meet him. That meeting is detailed in Jack's book, `My Baba and I.'
Hislop has been close to Swami ever since.
In the early seventies Jack was appointed by Sri Sathya Sai Baba to
head the American Sai Organization, an office he maintained until quite
recently. Jack travelled througout America helping centers to develop,
answering questions, and taking any unresolved matter directly to Swami
in India. He is still is a frequent guest speaker at various Centers
and Conferences, [Many recordings of which are available on audio or
video cassette.] I mention his frequent speeches often, and always as
an honour to him, since it cost him dearly. (For those who are not
familiar with guidelines in the Sai Organization, it should be
mentioned that no speaker or officer in Sai activities are paid-- not
even travel expenses are reimbursed. Thus, Jack puts out a great deal
of his own money to visit and speak to Sai devotees.)
This is an example of what Jack talks about when he visits devotees.
This particular excerpt is from a long meeting, and so I have broken
his talk up into several parts. Following are some of the questions
that the audience had the opportunity to ask at this conference held in
Missouri, USA, in 1994.
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Q:
Just hearing about your experiences with Baba is absolutely
wonderful and you've already answered a lot of my questions, but I
guess my burning desire is to hear about what Baba has said about
animals, and our relation with them.
A:
Swami's relationship with animals (if we wish to take that as a model)
is that he has great compassion for animals. He very often has a small
dog that he keeps. We all know about Gita [Swami's elephant, ed.], who
loves Swami with all her heart. I said to him one time, `Swami, people
say Gita was an Indian princess who took birth again to be near you.'
He said, "Nonsense! Pure nonsense. Gita was never human, but she will
be a human being in her next birth."
So, Swami sees animals as very little different from human beings. He
says there's nothing that doesn't have awareness, nothing that doesn't
have life. But he is also very strict with animals. They have to behave
themselves. There was a cobra living on the campus area of his ashram
and Swami told the cobra: "You can stay here, but don't kill anything
in this camp." So, time went by and then people came to Swami and
said, `Swami, the cobra ate a rat.' And swami said, "Kill it." Just
like that! So animals also have to do their proper dharma [duty, right
action, ed.]. Dharma exists for animals as it does for humanity.
At Brindavan there's a great big compound full of deer and geese. He
also has all kinds of birds. So, he's very much aware of the animal
kingdom.
Q:
You make a very important point about awareness, and I think I
understood you to say that you could get rid of your karma by always
realising that you are awareness. Did I get that right?
A:
You can get rid of your karma by keeping your mind on God at all times,
then everything else fades away into insignificance.
Now, the Buddha's monks also were worried about karma, and so, to a
great assemblage of his monks one time, the Buddha gave this
teaching. He said that your karma is like a string of beads that you
are pulling behind you. They are not following you; you are pulling the
beads behind you and whenever you wish you can let loose the string of
beads and they will disappear. In the same way, at any moment, you can
realise yourself that your true nature is divinity, and everything that
happens (whether karma plays itself out or not) will have nothing to do
with you because you are free; you are the observer; you are God.
Q:
If you are aware of something you are doing that might not be exactly
right, does karma still accumulate, even if you realise that you are
God?
A:
Swami says that if you engage in any evil action, you may be sure that
sooner or later the consequences will follow. Now, was it due to
foolishness on your part, just a stupid action, or was it a malevolent
action? Swami says that intention is more important than the event
itself. This is illustrated by the common story of the robber who stabs
somebody and the surgeon who stabs somebody. One gets jail; the other
gets rich.
Q:
Dr Hislop, has Swami said anything about creation and how he created
and in what order?
A: Well, one time I was there, in Brindavan, and I was actually about
to go home. Swami moved his hand like that and turned his hand and
there was a great mass of sugar candy. Swami said, "Look, look! You can
see the water still there changing into the sugar!" So Swami could see
it - the actual act of creation going on - the sequence: Space, fire,
air, water, earth. So the last two in the sequence of creation - water
and earth - were demonstrated right there before us on his hand.
Another, similar situation was that long ago he made a ring for me. We
were having an interviews with a group of nuns from Amayananda, and he
made a ring. I thought he made it for the nuns who were there. Why I
was there with a group of nuns, I don't know, but I was sitting
there. He must have invited me in. Then he turned and gave it to me,
this ring. It was a typical Indian ring with nine different stones and
the composite metal of five metals that they use in India.
At that time, we were staying in Bangalore. We went back to our hotel
room and in the morning when I woke up, I wanted to admire the ring
again, but the pearl was missing. Wasn't there! So my wife and I
crawled under the bed and we looked every place. There was no stone.
When we got back up to Brindavan, I said, `Swami, I must have done
something horribly wrong because Swami has already taken one of the
stones away.' He said, "No, no Hislop, it's not that. When I was
creating the ring, the thought crossed my mind, is this an appropriate
ring for Hislop."
You see the importance of that? For a moment his concentration had
fluctuated, and the process of creation was interfered with.
You see, Swami makes all these artifacts for people. Probably most of
you who have been to Brindavan have one of these artifacts - maybe a
ring or a watch or something. And the question is, how come, where do
they come from? So Swami says, "Well, I don't import them, bring them
from someplace else. My workers make them." So, what does that mean?
Well, thought is made up of atoms of energy of some sort. Thought is
made up of energy and that energy is something that vibrates at various
frequencies and so forth. Likewise an object, this watch - where'd I
put it? I haven't lost it, have I (laughter)? No here it is. Don't
tell Swami. I take that back (laughter). And this [Hislop hold up an
item., ed.] is also made of material that also vibrates at various
frequencies, various wave lengths. Now, with a master of creation like
Swami, what's so hard about Swami just changing the vibration of the
air, for example, and the frequency of the atoms in the air to the
frequency and vibratory rate of the metal of a ring? No problem at all
for Swami.
Q:
I know that prayer can have a tremendous effect, but I'm curious about
what actually happens when we pray for another. Does Swami change the
will for that person? And what is the most effective way to pray for
another?
A: I asked Swami about prayer and he said, "Hislop, very important
answer!" warning me that an important answer was coming up. He said
that it is very important to pray for what you need, or even for what
you want, but the prayer should be in a good loud voice. That is, don't
just mumble or just think. I don't know how loud he meant; you should
shout? But that's what he said, a good loud voice. And he said, for
example, the mother knows very well that the small child is hungry or
will be hungry, and that it must have food, but she doesn't rush to
feed the child until it cries out. It's the same with Swami answering a
prayer.
Furthermore, he made another very important statement. "Do not turn
away in sad despair if God does not answer your request immediately.
Keep praying until you have persuaded God to give you what you want."
That happens in a family, doesn't it? The kid howls until she or he
gets what it wants. It is the same in the relationship between you, the
child and the Lord, the Father.
I asked Swami, what is the proper way to pray? I said, `Swami, is there
any particular time or circumstance that one should pray, because
people say that one should pray at a quiet time.' Swami said, "No, no,
Hislop. Maybe at first for you to feel comfortable you would do that,
but that's not at all necessary. You can pray to Swami in the middle of
the street."
Q:
I've heard and read in a couple of places that towards the end of
Swami's life on earth, some two-thirds or three-quarters of the human
race - including all religions - will become devotees of Swami.
Have you ever heard any such thing?
A:
My understanding of his statement is that he has said, "During my
lifetime, the entire world will come to my feet and the Muslims will be
the last."
Q:
I wanted to ask you if you had ever asked Swami anything of a prophetic
nature, particularly regarding the course of future world events.
Secondly, has he ever said anything to you about the possibility of his
coming to America?
A:
When I was the head of the organisation, in our meetings, people would
ask all sorts of things. Since I did not have the right answer to most
of these questions, the next time I would go to India, I would ask
Swami what the answer was. One time I said, `Swami, some people have
come to America just recently and they say that you had a man in for an
interview and you told that man that New Zealand was going to
disappear beneath the waters and a land bridge to Australia would
arise and California was going to fall into the Pacific Ocean.'
Swami said, "Absolute nonsense, Hislop! I said nothing of the kind." He
said the ordinary geographical events will occur - earthquakes,
hurricanes and so on ..., "but Hislop, most of those are caused by
human misdoing. So when you hear that Swami made a prophesy that some
great thing is going to happen, better guess a second time."
Every time I have asked Swami, and I must have asked half a dozen times
over the years, every time his answer was exactly the same, "I never
said anything like that."
All right? Now, about coming to America. One time we were sure he was
coming. He said he was coming and we got his approval to rent buildings
in San Diego, so we went ahead and rented the buildings. Then the
events changed in Swami's world - what do we know about Swami's world?
How can we say what those events are? But something happened to change
his mind and he didn't come.
So the next year and the couple of years thereafter I kept on asking
him, `Swami, the devotees ask me this. The last time I said, Swami, the
devotees ask me, when are you coming to America?' Swami's response was,
"What?! Don't they know I have already been there!?!" So he is here all
the time. Everyday, in fact, in the last ten years, there have been a
number of stories about him appearing in a house and playing with the
children, things like that. So, he's been there.
Q:
You said that one could, by doing good deeds, cover up anything that
one may be going through as a result of one's karma. Has anything been
said to you by Swami, particularly about children who may be mentally
retarded or crippled? The families are praying for them, in a loud
voice as you said, but how can they communicate? How can they do good
deeds?
A: We know that here in America, as well as in other parts of the
world, terrible things happen. How could it happen to a small child?
There was a case of a boy in a village who wore a gold chain around
his neck. They don't have banks to store their jewellery. So this boy
was wearing one of his mother's golden chains. Two robbers came and
took the necklace and to keep the boy from identifying them, they
gouged out both of his eyes!! So the mother came to seek help and
compassion from Swami, but Swami told the mother, "This little boy,
your son, in his last life, was a very cruel man. He gouged out the
eyes of at least half a dozen people during that lifetime." So Swami
does not see this little boy just as you see him. But as time goes on
and this boy realises that something terrible has happened to him and
he must have done something terrible to deserve that, and starts to
feel genuine remorse, then Swami may forgive him and do something to
help him. So, that has to be said about what happens even to small
children. It's the result of karma. But karma can be set aside, or
largely set aside, by further lifetime activities of that person.
Q:
You were speaking about the first step in enlightenment, or the initial
step in learning about the witness. Could you tell us what would come
after that? And also could you comment on anything Swami may have said
about the Theosophical Society of which, I know, you are a member.
A:
I have never asked Swami about the Theosophical Society, and therefore
he has not made any comments to me. On the other hand, Swami appears in
dreams - he has to most of us. And yet, he says that a dream is just a
dream and when the dreamer disappears, as is the case when the illusion
of dream stops, then that dreamer is not lost but reappears with
the waking person who has nothing whatsoever to do with the persona of
the dreamer. So I said to Swami, `Well, Swami, you say that this waking
state is just a dream, too. A longer dream but no less a dream than the
dreaming dream. You say, Swami, that this waking state is a dream, but
we see you in that dream working hard every moment. Why do you do that?
Dream activity is a dream? What could be more useless than constructing
something in a dream and you're going to wake up five minutes from now;
it has no reality. And here's Swami, the Divine himself, working like
all out in this waking dream!' So I said, `Swami, how come then, if
it's a dream, that you're working so hard?'
He said, "Hislop, I appear in your dream to help you wake up from this
waking dream, because this is a dream just as is the sleeping dream."
See, if I had a dream last night, how can I escape from all the things
that are happening to me in that dream? Can I escape in any way except
by waking up? My freedom from the dream is my ability to wake up from
the dream, isn't that right? Only thing I can do to get myself out of
all the troubles in which we're engaged now trying to reach liberation,
trying to realise ourselves, making a living and so on and so forth, is
to wake up from the dream. Then, Swami says that when the fiction of
ourself, as part of this illusion of the waking state, disappears, the
actor in this waking state will then appear as his true self, the Atman
[recognised by absolute bliss, which is its very nature, ed.]. Likewise
from this waking state, we wake up from the waking state to our true
divinity, which is God.
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*Excerpted from Sai News Australia*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
This journal is available by snailmail at $20 per year or via e-mail
to the editor: bareldsa@ozemail.com.au. Albert welcomes correspondence
from interested parties and requests your favourite quote from Swami.
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