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Re: Hinduism Outside India - the Future
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To: alt-hindu@cis.ohio-state.edu
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Subject: Re: Hinduism Outside India - the Future
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From: vivek@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai)
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Date: 23 Jun 1995 14:41:21 GMT
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Distribution: world
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From news@larry.rice.edu Fri Jun 23 11: 26:21 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Subject: Hinduism Outside India - the Future
In a previous article, drai@ix.netcom.com (DHARMBIR RAI) wrote:
[...]
> Each sectarian attitude towards
> realizing God is valid in its own way and the existence of different
> 'samradayas' within Hinduism is age old.
The question which runs through my mind when I read a statement
like that is "but who determines what's valid?" Most Hindus will
say that Vaishnavism, or Shaivism, or Shakti worship are all valid
parts of Hinduism. Many will even accept instant swamis into the
fold. But how many will accept someone like Rajneesh? Some will,
undoubtedly, but most of the Hindus that I talked to said that
he was not a Hindu. The harder question to answer was why they
felt that way.
He wanted to realize God through group sex and orgasms. Call
me sectarian, but I'll be more than happy to call him something
other than Hindu. So, I'll hold on to the idea that not all
attitudes towards realizing God are valid. But I digress.
[...]
> During the quarter
> century that has elapsed there has been a tremendous increase of
> emigration of Hindus from India. An entire generation of Hindu
> children have been born or brought up outside India and there is an
> alarming trend of Hinduism losing its hold on this generation. If
> nothing is done to stem this trend, the future is indeed bleak. We
Yes, the future is indeed bleak, but with a little work, it can be
made a little bit more hopeful.
> have seen this happening before in various parts of the world both in
> remote and recent past. Just in the past few decades Fiji, West
> Indies, former Guianas - countries once with large Hindu population
> have all seen the decline.
You don't even have to look that far. Even in India, filmi music
blares during the Ganesh festivals, men smoke beedis as they prepare
to pull the Deities through the streets, and people get rip-roaring
drunk on religious holidays. Yes, Hinduism is on the decline in
many places, not the least of which is India. Anyone want to take
a guess as to which country the WHO is worried about regarding
a potentially huge AIDS problem? The influence of the Western
ideal is making its way eastward, and the modern Indians
seem all too happy to welcome it.
> Ironically, the earlier, less educated and
> less sophisticated generations in these countries were more successful
> in preserving their culture and traditions.
It's not at all ironic if you think about it. Many successful Indians,
especially in the US, tend to view traditional religion as something
backward and a thing of the past. It's part of the colonial-instilled
thought. So, once they're free of the confines of India, they also
decide to give up the encumbrances, like the religion and culture.
Only later might it be realized that these were essential not only
for a mental framework, but also a social one.
> I am sure that all immigrant Hindus are keenly aware of the problem.
> The responsibility of course lies with the parents but the communities
> as such have to come to grips with the situation.
In purely practical terms, there's not much that the communities
can do if the parents don't get involved themselves. However, if
the parents don't view religion as worthy, then how are the kids
supposed to decide to actively continue it? How many parents
here go to the temples regularly? How many have read any of the
religious texts completely? How many of them have tried to get
their kids to do the same?
> The child of an immigrant Hindu family finds it difficult
> to accept things on faith. For example, he or she can not understand
> why some gods and godesses have four or eight hands; why does Ganesh
> have an elephant's head etc. Unless the parents or other grown ups
> explain the rationale behind and the significance of the symbolisms the
> children can not accept the traditional ways just on command.
It's important to explain all these things to children, but it's important
to put it all in a rational framework. One of the most confusing things
about most approaches to Hinduism is the lack of self-consistency.
One group tries to make it model Christianity, with a holy trinity,
and another wants it to become a service-oriented religion whose
goal is to attend to the poor, and yet another group wants to make it
about having no rules, or accepting everything of all faiths, or whatever.
It's sort of hard to find modern Hindus in the US who view Hinduism
as being about God. If you take a look around, you'll see what I
mean, because everything I listed above was from personal experience.
> The main
> problem facing Hindu parents and communities is to make children feel
> proud of their religion and cultural heritage. This has to come from
> within and can not be forced. It requires a concerted effort.
Christan kids, even if they don't know anything else about
Christianity, at least tend to know something about Jesus.
Even the least religious among them will tell you something
along the lines of "If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to Hell".
Granted, it's not exactly tolerance, and it often leads to less
than love-thy-neighbor attitudes, but they have some sort of
pride, even if it might be misdirected.
Most Hindus that I've encountered are very unwilling to reject any
idea, no matter how ludicrous it sounds, simply because they
seem to have some desire to cling to some grand notion of
tolerance. It makes it hard to be proud of something when you
don't even know what it is exactly that you're proud of. Being
proud of not rejecting anything isn't a pride that lasts, and it
doesn't exactly foster a cultural heritage.
There has to be some sort of middle ground between the
"anything goes" approach to Hinduism and no religion at all.
It's much easier to develop pride in a religion when it makes
sense to you, or, at least, it doesn't have gaping holes in it.
If nothing else, Hinduism has a rich tradition of logical debate,
and either side of those debates are generally preferable to
the uninformed viewpoint.
> We need to explain to the children the ideas behind simple things like
> bowing to the dieties in temples, offering flowers and fruis, lighting
> lamps and incense, even taking off shoes outside temples and so on.
Let me be a little deconstructionist here:
What's the point of bowing to a Deity if it's nothing more
than a piece of rock? If it's just a mere symbol, then why
can't you just bow symbolically? An acquaintance of mine
saw no point in having Deity worship - he said that since they're
just rock, the money spent on them is wasted. And, if you
believe they're just rock, then he's got a point.
What's the point of taking off shoes outside a temple if
everything (or nothing) is God? If it's all an illusion anyway,
then taking off your shoes and pretending there's some
significance only reinforces the illusion.
What's the point of bathing the Deities using the panchamrita?
If they're rock, they don't exactly care how clean or dirty
they are. If everything is the same, then why the five items
in panchamrita? Why not other things, like chocolate milk,
soda, or even alcohol?
Before anyone attacks me for these questions, let me point
out one thing: they were really asked to me by members of
the current generation of Hindu kids. This is what we're
dealing with - the kids are smart enough to ask these sorts
of questions, and they're skeptical enough to come up with
them. If you give them only enough knowledge to tide them
over and you can't answer these sorts of questions in a
satisfactory way, then you've lost them.
> As they grow up they need to understand that the 'rituals' do have
> significance that relates to their lives and that worship and religious
> practices are simply stepping stones towards the goal of becoming
> progressively a better person.
And the counterargument will be: why do I need religion to be a
better person? And, in fact, looking at history, it will appear that
perhaps there's not such a strong correlation between the apparent
"religiousness" of a society and the acts they commit. How many
people on the Crusades claimed they were serving God? How many
Hindus denying other people entry into temples claim to be
upholding a righteous caste system? How many Muslims in the
Iran-Iraq war were fighting on Allah's side?
If you don't give them a real understanding of religion, but
only scratch the surface, then this is the sort of response you
will get. "Good" people can be made in the absence of religion.
"Bad" people can be made in the presence of religion. There isn't
as strong a correlation as we might hope for.
> At present there exist very little (to
> my knowledge) by way of published material to help parents and
> organizations in facilitating this task. It is the responsibility of
> the 'intellectuals' in the communities to make up this deficiency. It
First we should identify what is the deficiency, and what causes
the deficiency. In my mind, the deficiency is not caused by lack
of available material in some sort of easily digestible form. The
problem is that the material that is easily digestible is also
intellectually unsatisfying. We expect the kids to be smart in all
areas, but when it comes to religion, we're happy feeding high
schoolers the materials that are fit for a second-grader. We're
happy leaving religion to be mystical and off in never-never land.
We'd happily trade off better SAT scores for even a cursory
knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita. The problem, as I see it, is
that when all is said and done, most people view religion as
being essentially unimportant.
> may not be as intellectually satisfying as discussing 'Aham Brahmasi'
> or the commentaries of Shankar and Madhva, but will certainly be
> rewarding to the conscience. We owe it to our heritage, we owe it to
> the coming generations.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
On the other hand, if nobody has anything more than a mediocre
understanding of religion, we've doomed ourselves to failure.
There's enough easily available English-language material out
there that anyone who's interested should take a serious look
at it. My personal bias is toward the Hare Krishnas, and there's
a wealth of information there, from books geared toward little
kids, to books that require a brilliant mind to fully comprehend.
In between, there are books that explain Krishna and His pastimes
in ways that are understandable to junior high and high school
students. Other groups have their own resources, and even
unlikely sources, like the Amar Chitra Katha (sp?) comics, can
be useful. Before cursing the darkness, see what candles are
available to you.
I've rambled for long enough, but I think that I'd be remiss
if I didn't quote the following. It's the translation of verses
8-12 of Chapter 12 of the Bhagavad Gita. It's from the
Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Srila Prabhupada's translation, and
it's where Krishna instructs Arjuna about the various "levels"
of worship. It's best if you read the full purports, but this is
a good place to bring them up.
"Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead,
and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me
always, without a doubt.
"My dear Arjuna, O winner of wealth, if you cannot fix your mind
upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of
bhakti-yoga. In this way develop a desire to attain Me.
"If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then just
try to work for Me, because by working for Me you will come to the
perfect stage.
"If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me,
then try to act giving up all results of your work and try to be
self-situated.
"If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the
cultivation of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however, is
meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of the fruits of
action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind."
copyright Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, used with permission
So, while we're groping about how the next generations of Hindus
should try to maintain their identity, we shouldn't lose sight of
the big picture. If we're really interested in religion, we shouldn't
encourage people to just be happy with knowing why some
gods have 4 heads - we should be concerned about making sure
that they know the purpose of religion.
-Vivek
P.S. The original post raised some important questions, and I
thank Mr. Rai for bringing it up. I'd like to see this discussion
stay away from the nit-picky level and stick to the general
topic, and I'd ask that all participants try to adhere to that
goal.
