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Civilization and the Vedas (long)
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To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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Subject: Civilization and the Vedas (long)
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From: nparker@crl.com (Nathan Parker)
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Date: 8 Mar 1995 17:54:55 -0800
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From nparker@crl.com Wed Mar 8 20: 45:43 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: CRL Network Services (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest]
The following is a lecture given by Sriman Atmatattva Das Adhikari at a
seminar for Calcutta college students in Mayapur, West Bengal. This was
originally supposed to be part of a previous article ("What is
religion?"), but was somehow excluded.
This file is 30k, so download it if you are interested.
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Civilization according to the Veda
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It's very hard nowadays to see civilised people. But there are
people who are civilised, they are there at least. We are trying to make
some more because that is the only thing lacking (?) So we are trying to
make human beings, then we can civilise him. If he lives as beast, it is
difficult to civilise a beast. You cannot civilise a camel, its not
possible. So first is to make human beings, Prabhupada said I want to
make you a human being, then you can be civilised. And when you are
civilised then you can have a goal in life. Civilised human being means,
that he has got a goal in life, he has got a purpose. This is the
difference between civilised and uncivilised. Uncivilised means he is
human but he is living just like an animal, he has no go al. You see the
dogs, they go very fast running in one direction and then suddenly turn
around and run in this direction. They have no goal. They are running,
and you think, "Wow, theres something happening". Then you follow, then
they turn around and same speed this way. This means there is no goal,
its just living, thats all. (?QUOTE) Sukadeva Goswami is asking, "Are the
trees not living?" The trees are also living, they are also living. There
should be some purpose for living. There is life and t here is goal of
life. Life without goal of life is known as uncivilised. If there is a
goal for your life, it is known as civilised. There must be some mission,
there must be some aim. If you stop somebody in Dalhousie at 11 oclock in
the morning, its very fast. "Wait, wait". "No, Im late." "Where are
you going?" "I have no time." "Just give me two minutes, now where are
you going?" "Im going to work" "Why should you work?" "Hey what are you
talking? If I dont work then how will I earn money?" So then we say "why
do you need money?" "Hey, you have become pagla or what? If you dont
have money how can you buy things? How can you have anything?" "Why do
you need things?" "You are really mad man. You have no work, dont stop
me from my work . If you dont have things, how can you eat?" So then
you say, "Why do you want to eat?" "This is real trouble, you are asking
all these stupid questions to me. Now if I dont eat how can I work?"
Then you say, "Thank you, I just wondered about this, thats all. Carry
on working." So then he walks on for two minutes and then he stands and
he thinks, "What? What did I just say?" It sounds to himself, very odd.
That I am running to work, and working to earn, I am earning to spend, I
am spending to e at and I am eating to? Work. So this is called
uncivilised. Though this gentleman is having three piece suit which is
borrowed from the chinese laundry, it is not his, this is Calcutta. You
have no idea what Calcutta (?) Somebody may be dressed up lik e a
gentleman, but when he opens his mouth, then you know, then you can see
that he is not civilised. If he is civilised then he must have a goal in
his life, it is not that he simply lives. There must be some aim for
which you are living, otherwise you have art, music, exhibitions, so many
wonderful plays and dramas, so many wonderful things, then what is the
difference between you and the beasts. Because the beast, without going
to the university and without singing (?) hes doing the same thing, he s
running somewhere and picking up something for food. Brings it home,
eats, shares it with the kids and sleeps. So what is the difference
between this one and that one? Except that this is two legged and that is
four legged. And except that this one spent his fathers money in the
university and that this one is clever, did not do it. Practically the
animals are more civilised. That is true, no animal does family planning.
Have you ever heard? Have you ever heard of an elephant killing its baby
in the womb? Have you ever heard of that? Never. You never heard of
such a thing. Have you ever heard,"Three hundred abortions in camel
civilisation!" you never hear these things. Prabhupada gave the example,
if you throw some grains in front of your home, the birds will come. They
will pick up one or two, they will eat one or two, carry two or three for
their small ones in the nest, they will fly away. But if you leave bags
of grains outside your home, in the night, next morning, not only that all
the bags are gone, but some stone man would have killed your (?) too.
This is what will happen. This is human civilisation. Not only he will
take all the bags, (?) and blame the stone man. So this is going on.
Civilisation means there is some goal i n life, there is some aim in life.
Without aim in life, even if it is human, if he is living, it is not very
interesting. Because you are doing the same like the birds and the
animals. You are not doing anything better. Not only you are not doing
bette r, you are doing worse. Because you go to the school, you study
books, you paint paintings, you make dramas, you write poetry, you grow a
little beard and walk with a long bag on your shoulders, an intellectual,
and get a free ticket to (?). So all this you do, the animals never do
that. Only you do this. And you think you are a big intellectual. You
see many of them in Calcutta, talking, with the shoulder bag and beard.
This is called buddhi jivi, it means they live on intelligence. Or they
are in telligent, they live on others. One of these meanings can be
taken, buddhi jivi means one who only lives on intelligence. The other
meaning is he is so intelligent he lives on others. This is called buddhi
jivi, intellectual. Means he never spends his money, even for cigarette,
he smokes someone elses. This is a product of city civilisation. In the
villages, if any body lives like this they will burn him. They will hang
him on the kadamba tree and put fire to his legs.
Civilised human beings have religion. Civilisation means goal and
that is called dharma. What is dharama? What is religion? A simple
definition is: religion means that which cannot be separated from an
entity. For example you have water in this puku r. This water is liquid,
you cannot separate liquidity from water, can you? As long as it is
water, it is liquid. Maybe you make it into steam, it becomes air, but
then it is not water. You make it into ice then it is solid, but still it
is not water. As long as it is water it is liquid. This is called
dharma, this is called religion. To give a crude example. The dharma of
the water is liquidity. Same way fire, the fire is hot. And it is
effulgent, it has got heat. Light and heat are the intrin sic qualities
of fire. So, this is called the dharma of fire. That you cannot separate
it from fire. If there is fire it will be bright and it will be hot. You
cannot have a cool fire. It is not possible. Even though they say that
this is 70% / 30% very good combination, made for each other, cool fire
they say, but its not cool fire. Its cool here in the throat, but in the
lungs it is hot. They call it cancer. See, made for each other. This is
real made for each other, you and the cancer. There is only one smoke
that doesnt cause cancer, thats the smoke that comes from our yajna. Not
only it doest cause cancer, it cures cancer. The fire which is cool is
an illusion. And the water which is not liquid is an illusion. And the
sadhu who jumps four inches from the mat is also an illusion. So these
are all mentioned in the scriptures. This is called religion - that which
cannot be separated from the entity. This is real religion, that cannot
be separated. But unfortunately because this is a world of duality, here
there is day and night, happiness and misery, good man and bad man, real
and false. So you have all this in this material existence, so religion
also has that, in this material existence. But they are bogus religions,
fictious rel igions. And there are also real religions. This is very
important to know. So we have classified them on two sides. One is bogus
religion and another is spiritual, scientific religion. One is science,
another is fiction. You all understand this lang uage. Science and
fiction. Science means there is observation, hypothesis, proof and then
there is laboratory. You can see it, you can infer and you have
authoratative statements, this is known as science. And the other thing
is Batman. This is all fi ction, James Bond. There was no James Bond.
This is fiction and another is science. Science means you can see, and
there is hypothesis and there is some logic and then there is some proof,
some factors are at least proved. And there is no samsaya, mea ns there
is no doubt. Its not smoky, its very clear. Its not that its something
like that, its unexplainable. No. Its explainable. Its not that some
factors are scientific and some factors are fiction. No. It is science
all the way through. It is not half science and half fiction. Now in
America this is the latest thing. It WAS the latest thing. This year it
is different. Up to last year it was science fiction. It was the big
thing. Its fiction, somebody takes a karai from the kitchen and th ey fly
to the moon. And when they come back they get it (?) in Mars. This is
called science fiction. They use some scientific principles but they say
it through the fiction. So you clearly understand that fiction means
what. So now in religion there are two sides like that. There is fiction
religion and there is science religion. Technically in our philosophy we
call it materialistic religion and spiritual religion. Common language is
science and fiction. But technical language is materialistic, means
arthic dharma and spiritual paramarthic dharma. Artha means economic
development. (BENGALI?) So the whole idea is that we have to get
something, very interesting you should get something. Its called human,
human should not be without profit, tha t we already discussed. There
should be some goal. Goal means some profit, there must be some profit.
The only point is, what is profit? That is the question. What is real
profit. (?QUOTE) Talking of artha, very good. You are saying, swartha,
but what is swartha? Do you know this? But Srimad Bhagavatam says
(?QUOTE) they do not know. What they do not know, (?QUOTE) What is real
swartha. What is the goal of a real selfish person, they do not know.
What is that goal? (?QUOTE) So that is spirit ual religion and that this
is materialistic religion. Materialistic religion is coming from
conditional consciousness. And spiritual religion is a manifestation of
consititutional consciousness. When we talk of human being, especially a
civilised human being, especially that human being who thinks there is a
goal in his life, he can realise that he has consciousness - we all have
consciousness. Consciousness means the symptom of the spirit soul. We
have spirit soul and that is presented through the manifestation of
consciousness. Consciousness is not the soul, it is a symptom of soul.
And body or the senses and the mind and intelligence, they all act because
of the presence of consciousness. This is the difference between a dead
body and a livin g body. The living body is conscious and the dead body
is not conscious. You see a dead body and a living body. The living body
is sitting, walking, talking, doing all that. The dead body is just
laying down, it doesnt do anything else. And how do th ey declare that he
is dead? The doctor comes and checks the consciousness. Then he says,
"Oh, now he is dead." If you go to the surgery room in the private
nursing home you will see a chart on the wall. They write 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
They say, "Levels of consciousness." It starts with bright yellow color,
it goes a little pink and the fifth one is written in blue. The fifth one
says, "Dead". So when they do the operation, when the operation is over,
then when the person comes up they check those levels of consciousness.
And on the card on the bed, it says when he came to this level, when he
came to this level - sometimes he doesnt come up. He just goes down.
And there is the fifth one and that means that he is dead. then they
cover the face with a white cloth and they call the relatives and they
say, "Hes finished", and the bill is more. If he lived the bill is less.
If you died the bill is more. At least in Bellvue. This is called
consciousness. We all have consciousness (?) some people don t have it.
And sometimes they cover it. Consciousness is the symptom of the living
entity. And the living entity is a servant of God, he is a part and
parcel of the Absolute Truth. But these living entities original
qualitites are covered by material istic consciousness. And this
materialistic consciousness may be expressed in non-religious activities
or religious activities. This is the only difference between atheistic
and theistic. But their goal is one. What is the goal? To have sense
enjoyme nt. Either in this life, or if they believe in next life, next
life also. Atheistic person does not believe in next life so he wants
sense enjoyment in this life. And a theistic person, he believes in next
life, so he wants that that sense enjoyment be available in this life and
also next life. This is the only difference between gnostic and ostic.
Because ostic does not mean that he is great. Between ostic there is
materialistic ostic, there is paramarathic ostic and there is arathic
ostic. Arathi c ostic and gnostic, there is no difference between just
like dry stool and wet stool. The dry stool is dry that is atheistic,
gnostic. And the wet stool has got some juice in it, so some ceremonies
are going on in his house. Some Oriya Thakur comes an d he puts a (?),
get five paise, something like that. So this is called arathic religion.
So he is also a sense enjoyer, hes not just performing mundane activities
hes performing some activities with some ceremonies. That is the only
difference. So d ont get bewildered that religious means somebody who
performs some ceremonies. This is not religion. This is just another
plan of sense enjoyment. Because there is dharma which is religion, there
is artha, which is economic development, and there is ka ma which is sense
enjoyment and there is moksa which is liberation. So these are the four
levels of consciousness in a civilised human being. Religion, or
religiosity, economic development, sense enjoyment and liberation.
Generally people perform relig ious activities for economic development,
and from economic development they get sense enjoyment and then after a
long, long time of sense enjoyment they are looking for liberation, this
is the general human being. In the modern life they have kept relig ion
aside and they have found out methods for economic development. For
example, science, education, sports, etc. Nowadays sports is best. If
you can just play chess you can earn more than anybody, even more that
(?). Just play badminton, you earn mor e that Vaiyajantimala. Sports is
the biggest industry now, it makes a lot of money. This is economic
development without religiosity. If that is available then people kick
out religion. They simply want economic development straight. If you can
give e conomic development without religion its much better. Why be
religious. Just get economic development. The point is if you can get
economic development without religion, then people prefer that. This is
why these ideologies like socialism, communism, this ism, that ism, they
become successful. They are trying to replace religiosity. You dont have
to be religious, but I will give you economic development. All that you
have to do is kidnap every third child and kill every rich man. This is
Ananda Mar g, and one day we promise you we will have heaven on earth.
And if it doesnt come then take a skull and dance. So this is one way of
thinking about it. Anyway heaven is coming only, before that you can at
least see the hell.
So this is called materialistic idea. These are all conditional.
Because consciousness is actually spiritual. But that consciousness is
covered by materialistic tendencies. And through this materialistic
covering, when the consciousness expresses itse lf, it becomes fictious.
It is not scientific. The real soul is scientific. Whereas the
materialistic conception is unscientific. Because it is not talking of
eternity. Because of losing its eternal consciousness, eternal position,
it becomes very un scientific. Its like taking a ticket on Indian
Airlines, anything can happen to you. Why do we call it unscientific.
Because there is no goal. And this is constitutional, QANTAS, they check
everything before you get in. This conditional religion has got,
generally, three tendencies. One is fruitive, another is speculative and
another is religious worship. And this is technically known as karma,
another is known as jnana and another is known as upasana. The karma
means fruitive, means expecting som e result. This may be done in a
factory or an office, or this may be done ceremoniously. If you are doing
it directly for economic development then you are called the modern man.
He goes to the university, gets some education and carries vegetables to
the ministers wife, gets a reccomendation and gets a job. Of course
education and job has got no connection. Its not because of your
education that you get a job. Its because by somebodys misfortune one
of your uncles becomes the cabinet minister. S o you get a job, otherwise,
not. So by carrying vegetables, because Manu Smriti says, "one who deals
with vegetables, he gets promoted. But the meaning is if you put
vegetables in fire, you get promoted to heavenly planet. But it has
become very true n owadays, if you carry the vegetables to the managers
wife then you get promoted. So Manu Smriti is right, you get promoted.
Carry vegetables, get promoted. Vedas are always right, they never go
wrong. In all civilisations, Vedas are true. So this is karma. Sometimes
it is religiously done, sometimes it is without religion, directly for
economic development. And jnana is a little better than this, this is for
material sense pleasures. And if it is religious it is for multiple lives.
If it is not re ligious it is only for one life. And jnana is that they
thinking that all these lives, this enjoyment and suffering, it is so
difficult, so we should just put a full stop, period, to these material
miseries. Thats called jnana. And then upasana means m aterial sense
pleasure, religious for one life. This is religious for multiple lives
and this is religious for one life. Means you worship some demigods, you
worship some gods. You worship Ganesha, you worship Siva, Durga, Sun god,
the impersonal form of Visnu. This is called Vedic religion of upasana.
Worshiping of different deities. And why you do it? If you worship
Ganesha there will be no income tax, if you worship Lord Siva, then your
competitor business man will pass blood and vomit and simul taneously
urine and stool. And if you are a woman you will get a good husband. And
if you are a man you will get a bad wife. And if you worship Durga then
you get a beautiful wife. And Canakya Pandit says that the beautiful wife
is the death of the hu sband. Because if the wife is so beautiful, then
the neighbour wants her. Otherwise, (?) takes her away. One of these,
especially if he belongs to the other party, if it is dull it is alright,
if he is not dull, very intelligent, then he takes her away . Then sun
god, means you want to be very healthy, Mr. Madras. Big chest, this is
called worshiping sun god. And there should be no diseases, you should be
very happy. This is only for one life only, not next life. And then
impersonal form of Visnu, if you worship him then every single thing you
do will become successful. This is materialistic religion of getting
sense pleasure for one life. And this goes from Ganesh up to Visnu.
There are five deities, mainly.
So they do hard karma like this and they do some worship, whom do
they worship? Managing director, sales manager, you have to worship
somebody. Everybody is worshiping, you can see, Rajiv Ghandi is
worshiped, (?) Purusottam is worshiped, so many people are worshiped. Why
they are worshiped? Because you want some elevation, depending on them.
And at least you want to get svarupya mukti with them. You want to look
the same, like (?). So you see the boys growing hair like this, with a
horse like face . Thats what he looks like so everybody wants to look
like him. Even the taxis drivers, they dress just like that. Because
they want to get the same form as the Lord. They are worshiping, so this
is also upasana. Whether religious or non-religious, y ou have an image
for worshiping and you are looking up to him. Even cricket players are
worshiped, cinema actors are worshiped, intellectuals are worshiped. Guru
Murti, after he brought that whole problem about Congress Party, now every
young man in India is worshiping him. They have his picture, why? Some
upasana is done. Some worship is done. And they say, "We believe no
religion". And then you go to their house and you see a big blow up of
Yul Brenner. Instead of breaking coconuts, everything els e they do.
They dont do dandavat, but every time they come out and look at that
picture, Enter the Dragon, they look at their chest and they look at his
chest. It will never come like that anyway. Dont beleive the future,
how good it is. Your chest w ill not become like his chest, because his
chest is not like that. Its only an illusion created by the camera. But
you are thinking that you are going to become like that - Enter the
Dragon, this is in the reception. This is worship also, what do you t
hink? This is all upasana. Its all worship. And they say. "Im not
religious, I dont go to temple, I dont worship anybody". But they worship
these stupid idiots like cinema actors, politicians, sportsmen, anybody.
Any Tom, Dick and Harry is worshipe d. And in the religious line they
worship Ganesh, Siva, Durga and Sun God and Visnu in His impersonal form.
So that is upasana kanda.
QUESTION: First you have to do upasana or karma?
ANSWER: You dont have to do any of this, but people do it. If your
consciousness is clear you come in this column not this column. But if
your consicousness is covered you fall in one of these columns or you are
in all these columns. Or two of these c olumns. Depending on how spaced
out you are, how loose is your brain. Then you step on both boats. Or
one boat or no boat. That is materialistic expression of ones original
consciousness. It comes out either as karma (fruitive activity) or
philosophi cal speculation or some worship for sense pleasure.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
ANSWER: No its mainly lust - religious lust. Because there is lust for
sense enjoyment. Krsna explains why people do upasana. (?QUOTE) (?)
means stolen or crushed or slaved. (?) jnana means their knowledge is
bewildered. Why? (?QUOTE) Becuase their consciousness is polluted by
lust, lusty desires. (?QUOTE) they worship, they do upasana. Because
they are lusty for sense enjoyment. Of course, when you say fear, that
aspect automatically comes in lust. Because when you are very lusty you
are not s ure about your existence. There are five kinds of ignorance.
The first ignorance is that one thinks that the body is the soul. The
second ignorance is that he thinks that enjoyment in this world is real
enjoyment. Like sensual enjoyment, he thinks it is real. Like you eat
some icecream and you think, ah, this is very nice, but actually the soul
is not getting anything from that. You are thinking it is very nice, its
just some mental concoction only. Sensual pleasure is only mental
concoction. Oth erwise, why is it that if the objects are giving
pleasure, if an 18 year old girl is dressed in a mini skirt and she is
walking next to you in the esplanade and you happen to turn around, like
this. But 80 year old lady walks with no skirt, you would nev er look! If
the object is giving you happiness, then they are both objects, they are
both women, they should be giving you some happiness. Same happiness? No
it is not. Why 80 year old woman is giving you no happiness? Why? This
is sensuous pleasure. Sensuous pleasure is transient. It is depending on
various factors. Even if she is an 18 year old girl, if she has a big cut
on the face and blood is coming out, you dont look at her. So this is the
point, it is depending on various factors, includin g the magazines you
read. That is the main factor, because theses magazines tell you that
this is great. So you simply read that and you are thinking you heard it.
(?) it is heard happiness. So to think that this happiness is real that
is second kind of illusion or ignorance. And the third kind of ignorance
is to think that this material world is all in all. And because you think
that it is all in all you have anxiety; that is the factor you are
talking about - fear. When you think that this is it , so you are always
thinking, what will happen to me, what will happen to my family, what will
happen to my money, what will happen to my wrist watch, you are thinking
of so many things. Anxiety exists because you think that this material
existence is al l in all. Thats all to be seen there is nothing, right?
And then there is another level of ignorance, that ignorance is that you
are thinking there is something above absolute truth. Or you think there
is something beyond absolute truth, there is somet hing beyond the
ultimate truth. Never put an ultimate, you are thinking that there is
something beyond it. Like they will always ask you, "You are doing some
God study?" And you will say yes. Then they will say, "Tell me one
thing, who created God?" As if it is a very intelligent question.
Actually it is the most stupid question. Because God means who is not
created. That is the definition of God. So then he is asking, who
created God? But that is not a very intelligent question. And he is thi
nking he has asked the most intelligent question. Because he is thinking
that by that question he will completely conquer you to materialism.
Thats what he is thinking. And you just give a laugh and you say anyway
you dont know what you are asking, so what is the use of wasting my time
with you. But I can tell you one thing, God means who was never created.
Thats called God. So you give such an answer and then they will say,
"See they have brain washed you." They have stopped your intelligence, yo
u are not thinking anymore. Suppose you ask him, what is this? And you
say it is chalk. And he will say what is chalk. It is chalk you use to
write...... Ah see they have brainwashed you. Youve stopped thinking.
What do you mean stopped thinking, c halk is chalk, thats all. So God is
God, it is as simple as that. Who created God? God is never created,
thats all, it is like that. Why is it like that? Why dont you ask more?
Why dont you ask more? You ask nothing. You sit in the train and you
dont even ask the neighbour where the train is going. Sometimes instead
of going to Carrakpur you go to Navadvipa. This is your intellectual. And
then you are asking, why dont you ask more. What is there to ask. God is
God, thats all. Very simple. S omethings should be like that.
Practically everything is like that. This is bamboo, thats it. Full
stop, period. And you are a fool. Period. What is there to ask?
Nothing to ask, very simple. This is a nose, this is a nose. Nose.
Thats it. Wh at do you want to ask? Asking does not mean you simply
ask. Keno, keno, keno. No! Somewhere you have to stop this keno. So
they think this is due to this ignorance, five kinds of ignorance is
there. So one kind of ignorance is anxiety. Why anxiety? Because they
think that this is it. This is the material existence and somehow I have
to keep it. Where is that anxiety coming from? That anxiety is a kind of
ignorance. And what is ignorance? Ignorance means that one has forgotten
his position. W hat is your position? Your position is that you are
eternal, you are full of consciousness and you are actually blissful.
Sat, cit, ananda - this is your position. And why you have forgotten that
position? Lust and lust only. Krsna says that, lust and lust only. Due
to lust (?QUOTE) the consciousness is covered or bewildered so (?QUOTE)
because they want quick result. They dont eternal result, they just want
quick result. Like blowing the boil. If you have a boil and you blow on
it, it feels go od. But it is no good, actually it wont cure the boil.
And then other kind of people they cut the boil and cut the hand itself
and throw it. One man camae to a rsi in Haridwar and he asked him,
"Swamiji I am having headache, what should I do?" So he s aid to take
some medecine. Then he said, "No, no, no. I am having always headache."
So cut off your head. You are having headache because there is head, if
there is no head, then no headache. It is very simple. That is this
group, cessation of materi al miseries. Its called jnani. And this
fellow he believes in other lives, so he knows there is soul, he knows
that my sense enjoyment is controlled by somebody, so he is thinking, let
me make so many ceremonies. This yajna, that yajna, this puja, tha t
puja, and do all that and then everybody will think I am (?) and in this
life everybody will respect me and I walk around like a nice peacock, and
then next life I can go to heavenly planet and enjoy nicely there. And
here I can go to Park Street in th e night, in the day time you go to the
temple and in the evening you go to Park Street. And they used to do
that, these babus. They go to (?) in the evening with their family, then
they walk around like gentlemen. And they come out and then they put th e
family on the horse cart and tell them to go to Allipur, and they take a
rickshaw and they cover their head, like this. Then they go there and
they do their nocturnal activity and then come around 1 oclock totally
drunk, to their house and they stay in the out house. Because the wife
should not know that he is drunk. And in the early morning they get up
and chant Hanuman (?). And the wife is thinking my husband is so
religious. So this is their life. This is Calcutta. So this is this
group. He do es all kind of ceremony in the day but hes actually just as
lusty as a beast. So then as soon as it is dark he takes another form and
he goes somewhere else and does something else and then in the morning
again he does, ding, dong, Jaya Jagadisha Hare. And then he catches his
car and goes to (?) Bazaar and he cuts everybodys throat ruthlessly, just
like Alexander was chopping peoples heads, in (?) Bazaar he does that all
day, chopping peoples head off. Even if it is brother cousin just come
from Jaip ur and kills him, and makes so much money and when Sarvajnana
goes he makes him a life member. This is part of his ceremony. And then
he will say to his friends, (?) And he is happy, he is thinking that that
is it, finished. So this is this group. So in this way people step one
to another, one to another. And then suddenly sometime the business
really goes bad, then they go to Haridwar and open an asrama. Mustard oil
did not give any profit so he became a yogi. Pilot baba. After making six
aircra shes, you leave the air company and become a sadhu.
QUESTION: You said sometime ago that there are yogis who can lift
themselves 4 inches from the ground....
ANSWER: They are not yogis. Yogis dont try for those things. People who
try to hop 4 inches from the ground are called frogs. They are not yogis.
(question indistinct)
ANSWER: That is right. Biologically it is the immediate cause but there
must be some sufficient cause behind that. Everything has got different
kinds of causes. The immediate cause is biological, that I accept. But
that biological cause must have ano ther cause. Biological is not
ultimate. Because who said there is consciousness in the body,
consciousness is not biological. It is non-biological it is
anti-biological. It is non-material. There is another cause, otherwise
why (?) people in the medi cal science. Why they speak about
consciousness if everything is biological? If everything is biological I
will give you tons of chemicals, you make one mosquitoe. You cannot, so
how is it everything is biological. Its not true. Its not just biologi
cal. (Indistinct for some time) There may be a biological reason, but
that biological reason has got an anti-biological reason behind it.
Because everything biological comes from somthing anti-biological. That
is why when you get sick you take antibio tics. So why you put everything
as biotic, why? Antibiotic is the cause of biotic. So then why not go
behind it? Why just say it is biological urge? It is not just biological
urge. If it is just biological urge, then why there is morality? Why not
just do anything you like? Everybody who has got a genital should just
have sex with anyone. You dont think like that. Its not just biological.
If I go to a bakery in New Market and stole cakes and ran away without
paying money, why you beat me? It is biological. Its not biological.
Charlie Chaplin proved it. People dont know. Dont say about people.
Talk about people who have brains. These are just brainless people.
Charlie Chaplin proved it in his movie. He goes to a bakery and steals
some bread. The policeman comes and catches him, so he speaks. He says
its biological, I was hungry and there was food so I took it. Why are you
beating me? Everybody who is hungry is taking food, you are not beating.
And everyone laughes, but actually i t is not a comedy there is a great
philosophy there. It is not simply biological that you are hungry, you
eat. Thats not true. Everybody who is hungry, wherever there is food
they just eat. Thats forest, that not human civilization. Its not
biologica l. Yes there is biological, I agree. But then where does that
biological conception come from? It must have another source. If it is
only biology then the question of morality is not there. Sociology should
be finished, there should be no law, no con stitution, everything should
be burnt. That is sentiment (indistinct)...
Otherwise you have to prove everything through biological
statement. You should prove why the King of England ran away with the
piper - if it is biological. Thats not biological.
Biological reason we accept, there is biological reason, but
behind that there is some anti-biological reason too. There is sentiment
between the two. There is biological force and pressure in the body, and
then behind that there is sentiment due to th e mind and then behind that
there is an intellectual understanding of the description of what you
appreciate and behind that is the consciousness. (?QUOTE) Biological is
very childish discussion.
[end]
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