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Ramakrishna in his own words (Was Re(2): aham brahmasmi - Revised and Enlarged!
Nathan Parker (nparker@crl.com) wrote:
>ken stuart (ken_stuart@macshasta.snowcrest.net) wrote:
>: Ramakrishna first was a Kali worshipper, but he specifically and
explicitly
>: did so with the understanding expressed in the Bhagavad Gita, ie that all
>Uhh, I suppose you are refering to the understanding expressed as
>avidhi-purvakam (in an illegal way), alpa-buddhaya(with little
>intelligence), abuddhaya (with no intelligence), mudha (like an ass),
>etc. It is nice to know the understanding RK had while worshipping Kali,
>at least he understood he was doing it in a wrong way.
>: those appearances are in fact just the Supreme Person.
>Now your mixing up a whole lot of things. First, he didn't believe in a
>Supreme Person, as he was not a dvaitist (or a variation there of). What
>you should have said is he believed Krishna and Kali to both be material
>representatives of the Brahman, i.e. Mayavada. (mAyAvAdam asac-chastra,
>pracchana bhaudam ucyate).
Well, finally here is what Ramakrishna himself on the subject:
[To the other ISKCON devotees -- NP's first paragraph above is a typical
example why I consider ISKCON to be "intolerant" -- it is sarcastic, even
aside from denoting Ramakrishna's understanding as "like an ass". To be
tolerant means to have respect for other people's beliefs even if you
disagree. Despite many other positive aspects of ISKCON, I rarely find this
level of disrespect elsewhere -- perhaps it is due to an insecurity
concerning one's own beliefs...]
-----------
[Note: the first paragraph may *seem* to confirm your previous opinions, but
please hold off judgement until after the second and third paragraphs...]
"He who is called Brahman by the jnanis is known as Atman by the yogis and as
Bhagavan by the bhaktas. The same brahmin is called priest, when worshipping
in the temple, and cook, when preparing a meal in the kitchen. The jnani,
sticking to the path of knowledge, always reasons about the Reality, saying,
'Not this, not this'. Brahman is neither 'this' nor 'that'; It is neither
the universe nor its living beings. Reasoning in this way, the mind becomes
steady. Then it disappears and the aspirant goes into samadhi. This is the
Knowledge of Brahman. It is the unwavering conviction of the jnani that
Brahman alone is real and the world illusory. All these names and forms are
illusory, like a dream. What Brahman is cannot be described. One cannot
even say that Brahman is a Person. This is the opinion of the jnanis, the
followers of Vedanta philosophy.
"But the bhaktas accept all the states of consciousness. They take the
waking state to be real also. They don't think the world to be illusory,
like a dream. They say that the universe is a manifestation of God's power
and glory. God has created all these--sky, stars, moon, sun, mountains,
ocean, men, animals. They constitute His glory. He is within us, in our
hearts. Again, He is outside. The most advanced devotees say that He
Himself has become all this--the twenty-four cosmic principles, the universe,
and all living beings. The devotee of God wants to eat sugar, not to become
sugar. (All laugh.)
"Do you know how a lover of God feels? His attitude is: 'O God, Thou art the
Master, and I am Thy servant. Thou art the Mother, and I am Thy child.' Or
again: 'Thou art my Father and Mother. Thou art the Whole, and I am a part.'
He doesn't like to say, 'I am Brahman'.
"The yogi seeks to realize the Paramatman, the Supreme Soul. His ideal is
the union of the embodied soul and the Supreme Soul. He withdraws his mind
from sense-objects and tries to concentrate it on the Paramatman. Therefore,
during the first stage of his spiritual discipline, he retires into solitude
and with undivided attention practices meditation in a fixed posture.
"But the Reality is one and the same. The difference is only in name. He
who is Brahman is verily Atman, and again, He is the Bhagavan. He is Brahman
to the followers of the path of knowledge, Paramatman to the yogis, and
Bhagavan to the lovers of God.
[...]
"The Primordial Power is ever at play. She is creating, preserving, and
destroying in play, as it were. This Power is called Kali. Kali is verily
Brahman, and Brahman is verily Kali. It is one and the same Reality. When
we think of It as inactive, that is to say, not engaged in the acts of
creation, preservation, and destruction, then we call It Brahman. But when
It engages in these activities, then we call It Kali or Sakti. The Reality
is one and the same; the difference is in name and form.
"It is like water, called in different languages by different names, such as
'jal', 'pani', and so forth. These are three or four ghats on a lake. The
Hindus, who drink water at one place, call it 'jal'. The Mussalmans at
another place call it 'pani'. And the English at a third place call it
'water'. All three denote one and the same thing, the difference being in
the name only. In the same way, some address the Reality as 'Allah', some as
'God', some as 'Brahman', some as 'Kali', and others by such names as 'Rama',
'Jesus', 'Durga', 'Hari'."
[The following took place on the occasion of a festival on June 15, 1884]
"Ah! How wonderful was the yearning of the gopis for Krishna! They were
seized with divine madness at the very sight of the black tamala tree.
Separation from Krishna created such a fire of anguish in Radha's heart that
it dried up even the tears in her eyes! Her tears would disappear in steam.
There were other times when nobody could notice the depth of her feeling.
People do not notice the plunge of an elephant in a big lake.
[A devotee replies: "Yes, sir, that is true. Chaitanya, too, experienced a
similar feeling. He mistook a forest for the sacred grove of Vrindavan, and
the dark water of the ocean for the blue Jamuna."]
"Ah! If anyone has but a particle of such prema! What yearing! What love!
Radha possessed not only one hundred per cent of divine love, but one hundred
and twenty-five per cent. This is what it means to be intoxicated with
ecstatic love of God. The sum and substance of the whole matter is that a
man must love God, must be restless for Him. It doesn't matter whether you
believe in God with form or in God without form. You may or may not believe
that God incarnates Himself as man. But you will realize Him if you have
that yearning. Then He Himself will let you know what He is like. If you
must be mad, why should you be mad for the things of the world? If you must
be mad, be mad for God alone."
-Sri Ramakrishna
