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Re: The meaning of JaganNatha
vijaypai@mandolin.rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai) wrote:
>In article <4dpfes$muo@babbage.ece.uc.edu>,
>Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <rbalasub@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>>mani@srirangam.esd.sgi.com (Mani Varadarajan) wrote:
>>> How does ``Isvara'' or ``Jagannatha'' refer to anyone
>>> but Lord Vishnu, in a religious context? I have never
>>> heard this particular epithet used for Siva, or any
>>> other deity for that matter.
>
>>Really? Well, Jagan-natha used without any other description does refer to
>>Vishnu as far as I know, but NOT Iswara. Consider
>
>>I am by no means a puranic scholar. But, I have read the Shiva, Linga puranas
>>reasonably thoroughly. I have also read (not so thoroughly), the Kurma and
>>Markandeya puranas. In NONE of these, as far as I can remember, I seem to
>>recall Vishnu being called Iswara.
>
>In the Bhaagavatam there are innumerable such references, though, starting
>with the very second verse "kim va parair ishvare?".
>
>However, I assume that Mani meant that the term "Jagannatha" is not
>used for Shiva or any other deity; as far as "Ishvara" goes, there is
>good evidence to use the term to refer to other personalities. For
>example, the Krishna Upanishad of the Rg Veda includes in its mantra
>"svasti svasti suman^galaiH kesho mahaan // shrii-kRShNaH
>sac-cid-aananda-ghanaH // sarveshvareshvaro dadhaatu" (May the great and
>only Lord of auspiciousness, Sri Krishna, who is like a transcendental
>cloud full of eternity, knowledge, and bliss and who is the Lord of
>all the demigods, bestow upon us all prosperity and auspiciousness.")
Actually, what I was trying to say was 1. Isvara can be used as a descriptive
term for anyone and 2. Isvara when said alone in COMMON parlance refers to
Shiva. Actually Isvara comes in Purusa Sukta, and even Skanda et. al have been
described as Isvara. I am well aware of that. Also in Rudram, Shiva is called
"Sarveshvara" => Isvara of everything, I could argue that includes Krishna
also.
>It is important to note that the exact phrase is "sarveshvareshvaro"
>implying that the term "ishvara" can be used for other personalities, but
>that Krishna is the "ishvara" even of them.
>
>This is also seen in the first extant line of Brahma-Samhita
>"ishvaraH paramaH kRShNaH" ... Krishna is the Supreme controller (ishvara)
>
>>I have gone to scores of Vishnu temples and in none of these he is called
>>Iswara. Without exception, Shiva is always called Iswara - Kapalishwara,
>>Arunachaleswara etc etc.
>
>You have not heard of Venkateshwara?
>
Oops, I missed that :-). However, it is the exception rather than the norm, as
any Tamil Vaishnavite will attest.
Also in the Bhagavata Lord K. may be described as Isvara. But, when Bhagavan
talks or appears when someone prays does the text say "Isvara uvacha"? I'd be
really surprised if it did. I mentioned that when Lord S. appears in the
puranas, it is very common that the purana says either "Isvara uvacha" or
"Mahadeva uvacha".
Finally, just ask any ultra-orthodox Vaishnavite (ex. from T.Nadu) whether
they'll exclaim "Isvara" when they are tired etc. They certainly won't. It's
precisely because Isvara when said alone refers to only Lord S. Similarly with
Isha, though the Isha Upanishad does not mention Shiva by name, Isha in COMMON
parlance refers to Shiva only.
Ramakrishnan.
--
That it does not see in that state is because, though seeing then, it does not
see; for the vision of the witness can never be lost, because it is imperish-
able. But, there is not that second thing separate from it which it can see.
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad - IV.iii.23
