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> > Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <rbalasub@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in article
> > <ghenE2LK25.Fqv@netcom.com>...
> >
> > >
> > > Please also advise us mortals on who owns the copyright for the BG. I
> > > wouldn't want to get thrown into the slammer for quoting the BG without
> > > permission.
> >
> > Namaste Ramakrishnanji,
VaNakkam thiru Susarla,
> > Some time ago, you offered the following words of wisdom:
I fail to see what my comments on some totally unconnected thread has to do
with this thread on Satya Sai name calling. I am sure you'll come up with some
ingenious explanation for it. Anyway,
> > > Jaldhar, I am sorry to say this, but you are wasting your breath trying
> > to
> > > explain mimamsa and how a study of it is essential for vedanta. Gaudiyas
> > ^^^^^^^^^
> > > have nothing to do with vedanta per se and prefer to stick to puranas.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > But then, a mere 3 days later, you also posted the following:
> >
> > Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian <rbalasub@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in article
> > <ghenE18zJG.Dny@netcom.com>...
> > > As far as I am concerned all 18 puraNaas are pramaaNa whenever they
> > > don't contradict vedas. This is the position of all genuine vedantic
> > > schools.
> >
> > Would you please care to explain these seemingly contradictory viewpoints?
> > That is, how is it that you can say the Puraanas are pramaana and yet claim
> > that a school which "prefers to stick to puranas" has nothing to do with
> > vedanta? In order to make that assertion, you would have to conclusively
> > show that such reliance on the puraanas leads to conclusions which are in
> > contradiction to the Vedas, as per your definition of the "position of all
> > genuine vedantic schools."
> >
> > I await your reply on this issue, sure as I am that it will be both
> > profound and enlightening.
It's quite obvious if you know something about the way puraaNas are written and
a little of miimaamsa. Anyway, here goes:
Take the Padma puraaNa for example. In one place (I paraphrase) "A man who
worships any God other than Vasudeva is like a man sinking a well in the banks
of the Ganges". In another place, the same puraaNa says "Uttering the name of
vishhNu, the wrath of shiva is kindled, so let not even the name of vishhNu be
uttered". Notice that these verses are present in all recensions (Bengali and
Western) and hence one cannot dismiss the one of the statements as an
interpolation. See Ludo Rocher, The Puranas, History of Indian Literature for
details about these verses.
The first one (fools and the Ganges) directly contradicts verses from the
shvetaashvatara upanishhad, atharva shira upanishhad, kaivalya upanishhad,
rudra prashnaH, and a host of other shruti. The second (wrath of shiva etc)
directly contradicts purushha suuktam.h, some verses in the naaraayaNa
upanishhad, nR^isimha taapaniiya upanishhad, and a host of others. Thus in this
case the verses in the Padma puraaNa are merely artha vaada. artha vaada is
some statement made to glorify something as worthy of being done, i.e., in this
case the verses serve merely to assert that the worship of shiva or vishhNu is
desirable. See any miimaamsa text for details, eg, miimaamsa paribhaashhaa by
kR^ishhNa yajvan. In short the artha vaada is to say "Do this, it's good for
you". It's not to be taken literally since it contradicts well known shruti and
is hence not pramaaNa.
Or you could take the approach, hara, shiva, rudra, niilakaNTha etc in the
shruti praising shiva, is actually praising vishhNu. Of course the shaivites
take the exact opposite view and claim naaraayaNa, vishhNu etc refer to shiva.
One could deliver long polemics based on etymology and it just depends on your
preference, whose side you take (shaiva or vaishhNava). Or you could follow the
more logical, way of advaita :-).
In any case all the schools sha.nkara, Raamaanuja or Ananda tiirtha's, while
they may have different views about puraaNas, do not use the puraaNas to argue
with their opponents. This is merely because they know that the puraaNas
themselves have verses praising different deities in different places (eg, the
Padma PuraaNa). The explanation of arthavaada I gave is probably not acceptable
to non-advaitic schools. However, they will argue only on the basis of shruti
and claim any smR^iti contradicting the vedas (whatever they may think that the
vedas mean) are apramaaNa. So the position of say a dvaitin, on the verses
praising shiva in the Padma puraaNa, would be that it is apramaaNa. Note
however that this explicitly accepts the superiority of the vedas, atleast for
arguments with other schools.
OTOH, at least on the net, you people keep quoting some verse from Padma puraaNa
(supposedly, I am not sure that it exists since no one else, not even the
Madhvas seem to have heard of this verse and given your school's record of
quoting non-existent verses, eg, from the kR^ishhNa upanishhad), which would
be dismissed as artha vaada by us. Of course for this one has to know how
_vedantic_ schools operate. On being told by everyone (including the Madhvas,
whose name your school uses to claim an "unbroken lineage") that this verse
won't cut any ice, you people repeat it once again and again and again. At
which point people belonging to _vedantic_ schools throw up their hands and
retire. Of course this "our school is authorized" (sic) is taken at face value
by Westerners and Indians who do not have much idea of vedanta. No insult is
meant to many of the of the Westerners who are second to none in their
understanding of Vedanta, I am talking about the more general audience,
especially the giita-thumpers you can see in airports a lot of times.
Now I hope you are not trying your usual ring-around-the-rosy technique with me
again. I am slightly hard pressed for time and would appreciate it if you
desist from your usual tactics. Namely, asserting that the quotes I gave don't
exist, without referring to the books I quoted, diversionary tactics of various
sorts, etc.
Ramakrishnan.
--
http://yake.ecn.purdue.edu/~rbalasub/
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