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Re: ISKCON - help define these terms
The one with esoteric questions thought:
>In the article <4h8djc$kq2@babbage.ece.uc.edu>, of 2 Mar 1996 02:59:56 UTC, a
>certain mayavadi gentleman wrote:
>
>>...I consider many of Prabhupada's translations quite absurd....
>
>Indeed. While I am not interested in assailing the personal character of the
>person who made this claim, I must note that it is indeed a bold one coming
>from someone whose idea of philosophy is to deny his own existence. One has to
I am not surprised at your ignorance (Advaita asking one to deny his own
existence). After all, your knowledge (actually ignorance) of Advaita is from
throughly illogical arguments by Prabhupada. In fact, Advaita starts from the
opposite end, one's personal existence is the only thing which always IS and
verifiable directly.
>wonder how we can accept a statement of truth from someone for whom the whole
>world is an illusion.
Look, I clearly criticized the article "What is Mayaavadam?". Look it up again.
All you can do is give meaningless arguments and comment on how arrogant
people are. You have clearly shown yourself to be unwilling to engage in any
logical argument, your arguments on paramparaa has been taken apart by
Ken and I many times. But all you can do is start personal attacks. Ofcourse
when there is a chance to pontificate you grab the chance by it's collar. When
I criticized Prabhupada what did you say? I was insulting him. Read your own
article which follows.
first: your reply to my post saying that I respect Prabhupada for his piety,
but consider his interpretations wrong.
second: a previous post of yours in ah.
Both the first and second posts were forwarded to me by someone who noticed
your inconsistencies.
-----------first---------------------
> Ramakrishnan, I really respect you. Your bhaasya is total tripe, and without
> humor. But I do respect you. Really.
Yes, it is possible. You could respect me though you totally disagree with me.
I have no problems with that.
-------------------------------------
-------------------second (from the ah archives)-------------------
>This is not what Krishna taught.
>Advesti sarva Bhutanam Maitri karuna Evacha
>Niramamo nirahankaraha sama duhkha sukha kshami
>Without hatred to all living beings (not just to so-called Krishna
devotees>alone) with frendship and compassion without mamakara and ahankara
with>equanimity in pain and pleasure ...
>Sometimes I wonder why they call themselves as Krishna Devotees!
>That is why Mani whom I respect has to bashout at them in one of
his>articles on this net.
>That is why I said in true bhakti there cannot be fanatism and reverse
is>also true!
>With pranams - Sadananda
Sadanandaji,
I found this article of yours to be completely distasteful,
misleading, and irrelevant to the subject matter being discussed in
this forum.
You quote Bhagavad-Gita (in context, for once) to try to show
that a Vaishnava should be without animosity towards other living beings.
This is quite true. What bothers me is that you extend this to the domain
of ideas, and assume that if we don't hate you then it must naturally follow
that we don't disagree with your ideas.
Most of us outgrew that stage wherein we saw disagreements as
indicative of personal animosity. I can hate your ideas without hating you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suspect that the reverse is also true. Our philosophy, which comes from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the Gita, teaches that even people like yourself who deny the personal
existence of God are also Krishna's eternal devotees, only covered by
maya. Therefore, I think I speak for all Vaishnavas when I say that we
don't harbor any personal hatred against you.
What I do dislike, however, is the kind of outright dishonesty and
even ignorance that is being propagated on this newsgroup under the guise
of 'Hinduism.' I do consider myself a fundamentalist in the sense that I
am intolerant of dishonesty, especially with regards to our Holy
Scriptures. There are many speculative ideas appearing here which are being
passed off as coming from scripture, and most of the time this simply is not
true. If it is fanatical to ask that people study and discuss the Gita
honestly (i.e. without inserting their own opinions or interpretations) then
let me be guilty. I see no reason why we have to change God's words.
Finally, I would ask that you not attempt to distract the readership
of this group with your false accusations of hatred and so on. I have seen
you get up on a pedestal in order to preach your own philosophy, only to
have Manish Prabhu and Jahnava-Nitai Prabhu deconstruct and ultimately
defeat it. If you have nothing else to say in response, either concede
defeat or stay silent. By resorting to these kinds of false accusations,
you only demonstrate that you can't go down with dignity. Worse, you
distract people from the issues we were discussing.
Yours in service of Lord Krishna,
-------------------------------------------
It is quite obvious that
1. You are unwilling to engage in logical discussion
2. If anyone argues with you and you are at the losing end, you start personal
attacks. Ex, Ken and a mayaaavadi gentleman.
3. You are here to put yourself on a pedestal and then claim that you are being
humble.
4. You can't practice what you preach.
5. another favorite pasttime is to take potshots at Ajay Shah.
In your own words 'Worse, you distract people from issues we are discussing'
I have given you innumerable chances to display anything other than circular
logic. You have failed to do so. And it's also quite obvious what your agenda
is. There is indeed no point in arguing with you. The only ISKCONites I have
seen display any logic whatsoever here are the Pai brothers. There is only one
thing left for you to do. Please go to the Dallas temple and offer milk to
Ganesha for the sheer joy of serving a pure devotee.
But, please do not stop posting excerpts from Prabhupada's book. After all
many of us here would like to have a good laugh reading those, just like the
article on Maayavadam.
Ramakrishnan.
--
Salvation is the realisation of one's true self and the resulting bliss
Shiva Purana I.13.66
http://yake.ecn.purdue.edu/~rbalasub/
