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>The full verse follows:
>ram gyo, ravan gayo, jaa kahu bahu parivaaru
>kahu nanaku thir kachu nahi, supney jiu sansaaru
>The message what Nanak is trying to convey is that
>whosover is born shall die.
True. Agreed.
>Even God, and his avatars
>do not violate this rule.
False interpretation. The incorrect underlying premise
is that God has avatars. You need to show that
Guru Nanak accepted avataarvaad (incarnation of God).
>This oft repeated verse, nowhere tries to deny the
>divinity of Lord Ram.
Nor does it accept or assert the divinity of Lord
Ram. In fact it does not even _call_ Ram "Lord."
>For else, if Nanak was unconvinced
>of the divinity of Lord Ram (the son of Dashrath)
>why will he praise the same Lord in the following
>verse:
>stree raamchand jisu roop na rekhiaa
>banvaalee chakra_paani darasi anoopiaa
>sahas netraa moorati hai sahsaa
>iku daataa sabha hai mangaa
>(Maru Solahey Mahlaa)
>(In the above verse, Vishnu, the One who has Chakra in
>his hands (Chakra_paani) is being described and praised.
>And so is his form Lord Ram).
Please translate the verse, and also explain its
context.
>It is not that there are one or two verses that Nanak
>et al have used to praise Ram. The name of Ram occues
>thousands of times. And in hundreds of verses, the very
>same Ram is called Raghunath (the one from the line
>of Raghu) or the son of Dashrath.
There are two different meanings of Ram in Gurbani.
It is used for 1. Ramchandra, the human being, who
ruled Ayodhya. 2. God, who has been referred to
hundreds of other countless names, none of whic
is more or less significant than "Ram."
I request that Mr. Tiwari attempt to see this distinction.
I regret that time does not permit me to post a lengthy
post based on my limited understanding, for some time now.
-- Rajwinder Singh <rajwi@bu.edu>
_______________________________________________________________________
sikkeh zad bar har dui aalam tegh-i-naanak waahib ast
fateh gobind singh shaah-i-shaahaa(n) fazl i sacha saahib ast
The sword of the central Doctrine of Nanak destroys the evils of both
the worlds, the poverty and slavery on this earth, and the sickness of
the soul hereafter, and we hereby proclaim our sovereignity over both
the worlds, the seen and the unseen. The final victory in our struggle
has been vouchsafed by Guru Gobind Singh, the Harbinger of the good
tidings of the ever present Grace of God.
--Inscription from a Sikh coin struck by Banda Singh Bahadur in 1710
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