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Re: Vivekananda - 2
In article 1515, manish@cadence.com writes:
In article <38p3mn$kis@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, srinivas@Glue.umd.edu (Nagulapalli Sr
inivas) writes:
|>Is not "Jana" Seva "Janardhana Seva"?? You analyse.
>A lot of people talk about "Service to man is service to God."
>
>Right, but what is the service to man is the real question.
>
>Lord Krishna says in the B.G., "fools lament over the dead body because the
>self that dwells in the body in not slain, when the body is slain", "jiva
>bhuta sanatana - the living entity is eternal", etc.
>
>So, can the service to the body equate to the service to the Jana, what to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>talk about service to Janardana??
>
>No.
Really?? Is that so?? What makes you think that "service to body" is
NOT service to Krishna?? Does not bodies of not only saints and holy people,
but also of Kauravas, and everyone in the Past, Present and Future
depicted in the Vishwaroopa Form of the Lord?? Can I say helping my
leg is a low thing as compared to helping my nose or head?? In fact, even
worship to Lord is also in the form a body that is idol right?? Does that
mean we are adoring the stone or the wood part of it, or does it mean that
we are adoring that symbolises or embodies the outer form of idol???
Since it is the Lord alone that pulsates in any and every body, service to
body definitely means service to Him alone.
>Atleast not according to the Bhagavada Gita (or even other Vedic scriptures).
Not if we understand it correctly. Not just Gita my friend, ANY scripture
and in ANY religion, and ANY prophet since the human history if you take,
if at all they tried to teach anything, it is the spirit of service and
love for mankind first. Krishna washed the feet of the sages and protected
the BODIES of the innocent people of Brindvan from the stone-rain of Indra.
Christ even when nailed to the cross, asked Lord only to forgive them for
they know not what they do. Prahlada when tortured by his father, recited only
Lord's name but never cursed and called him by any four-letter words!!
Even Gandhiji when shot, called only Ram, and did not ask the guy to be
arrested! Any master when teaches, tunes his teaching according to the
situations and temperaments of his generation, but the essentials suprisingly
remain same.
>People like Vivekananda, who talk endlessly about the sufferings to the
>body in this material world without leading the people to the scriptural
>injunctions, without showing them the light of the Vedic scripture, are they
>doing service to Jana?
>No.
Sorry to point out, that Vivekananda did NOT talk endlessly about suffering
in the material world alone. He enthused people, and if at all anything
his roaring exhort to "Arise, Awake and stop not till the goal is reached"
which essentially is Vedic injunction, shows the spirit of self-confidence
and courage he instilled into the drooping morale and spines of the nation
in his times. His call to sacrifice for the sake of people and society
is nothing new from the Yagna spirit of selflessness that Krishna proclaimed.
>Infact, by making statements like "How can you think about moksha when there
>is so much suffering in this world" and "You will get closer to Heaven by
>physical strength rather then reading Gita", they are misleading the people.
>
>Lord Krishna say in th B.G. 8.15 (I think that is the verse #):
>
> "From the topmost planet down to the lowest planet in this world,
> all are places of misery, wherein repeated birth and death takes
> place, but one who comes to my abode, O son of Kunti, does not
> takes birth again."
>
>So Lord Krishna is saying one MUST work for liberation precisely to end
>the suffering, because *suffering* is the very nature of this world.
Yes friend, but what exactly is this "LIBERATION"?? Is it some kind
of promotion obtained only after physical death?? Also tell me WHO is
getting this LIBERATION and from WHAT?? If you tell me, Mr. X is getting it,
are you not again saying the body of Mr.X and we know body is definitely
going to die, and hence there is nothing called LIBERATION for body anyway.
So what is getting LIBERATION is the question we need to clarify for ourselves
before we can try to get it. And that leads to the most profound question,
"Who am I"?? And only if we get any understanding of our own nature intimately,
can we realise the profundity of Krishna's saying and the depth of His
utterances. Until then, it is suffice to emulate the Master Himself and if you
choose Krishna, it is all the more best. Watch Him. Born in prison and brought
up by Yashoda, His life is full of making others happy. He did not teach verses
to Gopikas, but made them laugh and cheerful everday and when demons like
Poothana came, took them to task and protected the BODIES of the rest.
He did not kill Kamsa to get even with the grudges and suffering he caused
to his parents or Himself, but only when it was necessary to do it to
protect MANY other BODIES from his tyranny and misery. Even in the Raja suya
Yaga, eventhough He is Purushothama, He showed what humbleness is by washing
the feet of all the sages and serving them. It only shows, WORKING for
LIBERATION is NOT divorced from service to society and I do mean the
BODIES !!!
>Vivekananda, by saying, "How can you think about moksha when there is so
>much suffering in this world" preached exactly opposite to what the Gita say.
>
>This is called atheism and is how demons always act.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Bhagavad Gita 7.15 clearly describe such people (and their acts)
>
> na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah
> mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah
>
> "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are the lowest
> among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who
> partake of the atheistic nature of deamons do not surrender
> unto Me."
Well, I do not mind in the least detail what you want to call it as, - be it
atheism or demonism. But let me tell you, there are people even now
even outside Hinduism like Mother Teresa, whose sole aim in life is
to serve others and not to get Moksha for themselves. If at all Lord is
everywhere and is in every heart, any effort to remove a single tear
from anyone, be it a victim of hunger, disease or poverty of love and kindness;
and any effort to console a single heart broken by the cruelties of actions
and words- spreads cheer and joy in our melancholy world of tragedies. And
that alone is the goal of many voluntary organisations like Red Cross, without
whose help probably some of us would not have been even participants of this
esoteric discussion of we getting Moksha or not. We can truly understand
what Moksha means only when we atleast know who WE are really in the first
place. Also, no amount of philosophy is any substitute to actual service,
as even Krishna Himself served everyone, and explained the profound
philosphy of Gita - NOT in the halls of school or caves of Himalayas,
but in the dynamic field of action of war-front when armies were arrayed
against one another, for and against righteousness.
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
