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God and Demigods-is Ganesha demigod?
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To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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Subject: God and Demigods-is Ganesha demigod?
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From: sadananda@anvil.nrl.navy.mil (K. Sadananda)
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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 07:57:10 -0500
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Followup-To: alt.hindu
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From usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil Fri Dec 16 07: 56:15 1994
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Naval Research Lab, Code 6323
In a recent criticism of my article on Vedanta Discussion, I was accused
that I have raised only lot of topics for discussions, but not made any
contribution to the Vedanta discussion per sec. In fact I am only
interfearing rather than contributing to the discussion.
I will address the topics that I have raised in time and hope to share
whatever I know with others. Of course I am grateful to Manishji for
pointing out some inconsistencies that he noted in the statements that I
have made in that article. Whether they are real or not, I am happy that
he took pains to look carefully for the mistakes. I hope he studies this
article too.
There were some comments during the past few weeks relating to the
personified Godhead with the claims that only Vihnu (Lakshmi pathi) with
the description of ...." Shantakaram bhugasayam .." is only the god of all
gods who pervades this entire universe. All others are demigods and this
list includes Lord Siva, Brahma etc. and being demigods they are inferior
to Lord Vishnu.
I am sure this is gratifying to all Vaisnavaites to know that their god is
superior, but what about the Saivaites. They are doomed for eternal misery
since their god is not capable of giving salvation! It was amusing to read
the logic that Lord RamaÕs istadevata was Siva and that indeed proves that
Rama is greater than Siva. But for them this logic stops here and cannot
be extended to the fact that Siva worships Rama. To them this does not
mean that Siva is greater than Rama. It looks like what is good for the
goose is not good for the gander.
I am amazed at the power of the human intellect. Human intellect works
wonders. The capacity to collect information, classify the data, compare
and contrast, and the codify the information is the business of the
intellect. Superior and inferior are the measures of the intellect. We
have the capacity not only to classify our fellow human beings who don't
agree with our norms as idiots and rascals, and but even grade the gods and
give them some rank.
There is generally a notion that God created the humans. After reading
these gradations one cannot avoid the feeling that actually it is the other
way around namely the Gods are created by humans. We are so good in this
that we have even created the families, politics and the power struggles
too for gods. Do not mistake me that I am an atheist. I also need at lest
one god to explain to my intellect the cause for this creation, sustenance
and the annihilation.
ÒYatova yamani bhutani jayante, yena jatani jeevanti, yatprayam tyabhisham
vishantiÓ
that from which the creation raises, by which it is sustained and into
which it disappears that is the cause of all causes.
Because I see the creation in front of me that is overwhelming my
capabilities, and since I don't seem to be the cause for this, nor anyone
that I see in the universe to be the cause, I need a creator. Krishna
says in 9th ch. B.G. ÒMayatatamidam sarvam jagadavyakta murtina - I pervade
this entire universe in an unmanifested formÓ. Also Krishna says, I am
"Prahbava Pralaya stanam nidhanam beejam avyayam" that is I am the seed for
the creation, and the substratum for creation and desolution".
I like to underline the phrase Avyakta murtina that means in an
unmanifested form. Since He pervades the entire universe, all forms
therefore are His forms. It is like the Bharata Mata declaring "I pervade
the entire Bharat in an unmanifested form". I am there in every piece of
land in India, and yet those forms alone are not me.
For sadhana, of course, forms are helpful since mind cannot perceive
formless. Since formless includes all forms, any form could be His form.
That indeed is the glory of Hinduism. Krishna in fact declares that in
whatever path you follow you reach me only. Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
answered this question beautifully when someone asked whether this God has
a form. He said if you think you have a form then God can have too. If
you donÕt, then he is also without. When you think you have a form then you
are limited by the form. In principle any idol is as good as the other so
long as the ideal behind the idol is not lost. But it is useful to provide
the mind that form that elevates the mind to that ideal behind the idol.
If Krishana's form appeals to you so be it. Do not find fault with the
other guy who worships the Lord in the form of Siva or Ganesha or whatever,
provided if he realizes it is not the form but the ideal behind the idol
that is what is important. That is what Linga literally means; that it
designates something other itself-that is the ideal behind the idol.
As the mind evolves higher and higher, even this Linga could become a
burden to go beyond the names and forms. This is exemplified in the
Kenopanishad by the teacher declaring to the disciple Ò..........,tadeva
Brahma twam viddi nedam yadidamupasateÓ meaning know that, that indeed is
Brahma and not this that you worship. This is repeated at the end of five
slokas wherein in each sloka the teacher points to that unmanifested.
"Yat vAcha anabhuditam, yena vak Abuhyate. ...tadeva...
"Yan Manasa na manute, yenahur manomatam, tadeva...
"Yan chashusha na pasyati, yena chashumshi pasyati, tadeva.."
"Yat Srotena na srunoti, yena srotramida srunatam, tedeva ..."
"Yat pranena na pranoti, yena pranah pranEyate, tadeva.."
Vidya referred to Rudram in the sruties that glories Lord Siva. The
contenders claim that the mere reference is not enough and they need the
quotations in order to satisfy their curiosity. Mani rightly chided them
that they should look up the reference before the making statements.
Understandably Mani can come up with an alternate meaning for rudram that
indicates Lord Vishnu. I will be very happy to know that. I hope Mani will
find time to explain to us Rudram from vaishnava point.
If that can be explained using both forms then it only confirms in my mind
that it is beyond both forms and any form is as good as the other. In
fact one of the names of Vishu in sahasranama is Siva meaning He is the
Auspeciousness.
I do not see any point in arguing then that this idol is supreme
compared to the other idols unless I forget what the ideal behind the idol
stands for. This is the reason I believe that Bhakti without proper
understanding can lead to fanaticism. History indicates that there were
Veeravaishnavaits and Veerasaivates who were killing each other in the name
of Bhakti. This was no different from what Muslims did and still do and
Christian did through crusade wars and still do by converting masses now by
showing a caret instead of sword. Haven must be a miserable place if all
those who have persecuted and are persecuting others ( through manasa vacha
karmana - my thought, word or action) that differ from their beliefs enter
there. This is trying to impose their beliefs on others. This
obviously is the result of lack of understanding of what God really means.
On the same token Gyana ( I am separating Vigyanam from Gyanam -look into
the 9th ch. of B. G. for the difference between the two - ) without Bhakti
can lead to intellectual arrogance. I feel that with true Bhakti, Gyanam
should develop; and with Gyanam, Bhakti should develop. This we can see in
our lives. We need the devotion (Bhakti) to achieve the goal we seek - And
we develop understanding (Gyanam) of the goal as we devoutly work to
achieve it. These are similar to the two wings of a bird. So I do not
see any meaning in arguing that Bhakti is superior to Gyanam or Gyanam is
superior to Bhakti. Start anywhere that appeals to you -Bhakti or Gyanam -
if you have true devotion to the Lord, Bhakti, or true Gyanam, a clear
understanding, then one should develop the other. That in fact becomes the
definition of what a true Bhakti or real Gyana is!
I am remained of a saint from Gujarat who used to spend a lot of time in a
temple in devotion to his Ista devata. Everybody considered him as a great
Bhakta, and there was a bit of pride in him that he indeed is one. To get
rid of that he needed a jolt. Another great saint came to that town and in
a public meeting insulted this Bhakta and told everyone that he does not
have true Bhakti. He could not take this insult. He went to his
Istadevata and cried to his heart content, and the Lord appeared in his
dreams and directed him to go to another Bhakta and get initiated.
With a heavy heart he went in search of this saint and to his surprise
found him in a temple sleeping with his feet on a Sivalinga. He was
shocked to see that sight and with a jolt he woke him and started abusing
him for this sacrilegious act. That old saint apologized and said that he
is too old and if this bhakta will be kind enough to lift his feet from the
Lingam and put it some where far away from the Lord. Feeling disgusted and
with a pride that he is a better Bhakta than this old saint, he lifted his
feet and tried to put it far away from the original Linga. But to his
astonishment, the moment he left his feet, there was a Linga rising under
his feet. He lifted again and put it some other place and found another
Linga there too. He got the true understanding of the scriptural
declaration that Lord is everywhere.
Bhakti is not exhibition of intense emotionalism and Gyanam is not the
knowledge of the scriptures. These are neither necessary or sufficient,
and many a time can even be an obstruction if this is not supported by true
Bhakti or true Gyanam. Guidance from a proper teacher will help in
avoiding our falling into these traps of fanaticism or arrogance. Of
course by definition Òa proper teacherÓ does not guide us in the direction
of fanaticism because that in the final analysis leads to self destruction.
The extreme cases in point were what happened to the follower of Jones and
those in Texas who got burned themselves and that which happened more
recently in Europe.
What I really wanted to bring to the attention of the readers before I got
lost in discussing something else is that I accidentally came across a
reference to Lord Ganesha in Sruti as the supreme Lord of the universe.
Knowing the comments Vidya received for Rudram, I have decided to give as
much of the text as possible or as much I have patience to type. Those
who think Ganesha is demigod and not the supreme and only Lord Krishna is
the supreme, I have no quarrel with their beliefs. They are entitled to
theirs. I sincerely pray that in and through Krishna as God-Head they go
beyond all manifestations and see the unity in the diversity. On the same
token others are entitled to theirs. Of course the problem comes if one
starts that my belief is right and your belief is wrong, and you should be
destroyed at least verbally if not physically then it is difficult to
consider that as Bhakti.
This text I am referring to is from Atharvasirsha or is a part of
Atharva-Veda. The text ends with conventional upanishadic ending with the
words to the effect Ò the upanishad ends hereÓ. Some don't consider this
as upanishad but only as a hymn to Lord Ganesha. Those that do not
consider this as upanishad ignore the fact that the text (1) it follows the
traditional upanishadic beginning and the ending, and (2) it also reveals
the true nature of Ganesh as Brahman, the unmanefested. They consider it
only as hymn describing the manifested form of Lord Ganesha.
The upanishad as in Atarvana Veda starts with Om Bhadram karnebhih ......
with three Santihs.
The text starts with salutation to Ganapati as an invocation ÒOm! Namaste
Ganapataye|Ó
Invocation starts:
1. Twameva pratyaksham tatwamasi| Twameva kevalam kartasi| Twameva kevalam
Dhartasi| Twameva kevalam hartasi| Twameva Khalvidam Brahmasi| Twam sakshAt
Atamasi nityam||
Rutam vachmi| Satyam vachmi|
Meaning: ( I recognize that other interpretations may be possible)
(Ganesha) You are the direct perception(essence) for the words Òthat thou
artÓ. You alone is doer (creator), sustainer and destroyer. Verily you are
Brahman. You are the eternal Atman.
I am speaking the Sruti. I am speaking the truth.
2. Ava twam mAm| ava vktAram| ava srotAram| ava dAtAram| ava avAnuvAcham
ava sishyam| ava paschAtAt| ava purastAt| ava uttarAttAt| ava dkshinottAt|
ava chorDvAttAt| avAdharattat| sravato mam pAhi pAhi samantat|
Meaning: Please protect me. Protect the speaker. Protect the listener.
Protect the giver (teacher). Protect the student. Protect the disciple,
protect from the west, protect from the east, protect from the north,
protect from south. protect from the above, protect me from below. protect
protect me from all sides.
3. Twam vagmayastwam chinmayah| TwamAnadamayastwam brahmamayah| Twam
satchidAnadAdwitIyosi| Twam gyanamayo vignamayosi|
You are the embodiment of speech. You are the bliss absolute. You are
embodiment of Brahman. You are the existence-knowledge-bliss and one
without the second. You are the manifested Brahman. You are the
embodiment of mediate (scriptural) knowledge and the embodiment of
immediate knowledge.
4. Sarvam jagadidam tbatto jayate| sarvam jagadidam twattastishtati| sarvam
jagadidam twayi layameshyati| sarvam jadidam twayi pratyati| twam
bhumirApo(a)nalo(a)nilo nbhah| twam chatwarivakpadAni|
This whole world has sprung up from you. This whole world rests in you.
This whole world is coming to you. You are the five elements; earth,
water, fire, air and space. You are the four forms of speech.
5. Twam gunatrayAtItah| Twam dehatrayatItah| twamavasthatriyAtItah| twam
kalatrayAtItah|
You are beyond the three gunas(satwa, rajas, and tamas). You are beyond the
three bodies (stula, sushma and karana). You are beyond three states of
consciousness (waking, dream and deep-sleep). You are beyond the three
periods of time (past, present and future).
6. Twam mulAdharAstito(a)si nityam| twam saktitrayAtmakah| twAm yogino
dhyAyanti nityam|
You are ever the root cause or substratum. All the three powers (required
for creation, sustenance and destruction) are yours. Yogis constantly
meditate on you.
7. Twam Brahmah twam Vishnu twam Rudrah twam Indra twam agni twam vayuh
twam sUrya twam chandrama twam brahmabhurrbhivah swarom|
You are the trinity (Brahma, Vishnu and Siva) You are Indra. You are fire,
you are air, you are the sun and the moon. You are Brahman. You are the
three worlds. you are OM|
(Here the declaration that all god forms are your forms!)
(Note: Next few slokas deal with the manifested form of Lord Ganesh and
Ganesh stuti and palasiddhi for those who worship Ganesha. I am loosing my
patience to type sanskrit in English! But if any one is interested you can
request a copy of the text and I will try to mail it)
28. Sa sarvavid bhaviti| sa sarvavid bhavati| ya yEvam veda| itupanishat|
He (who knows this knowledge of Ganesha) becomes all knower. He becomes all
knower. Know this to be the veda(true). Thus Upanishad.
The upanishad ends with the traditional santi pat , Om sahanavavatu
....etc.
Following is my opinion:
For me, God is one and call him in what ever name or worship him in
whatever form. Since all forms are His forms, one can invoke Him in any
form as long as I do not loose the concept that He is beyond all forms.
My istadevata is not Sri Ganesha but indeed Lord Krishna. His forms
appeals to me and meditation on the form helps me to go beyond the form.
For me Krishna is not just the Blue boy of Brindavan, He is in all forms
and yet beyond all forms.
ÒAntarbahischa tat sarvam vyapta NarayanastitahÓ He pervades the entire
universe - inside me and outside me. Hence beyond all forms and names.
I have no quarrels with any one whose mind is set on Siva or Sri Ganesha.
If that helps him - glory to him. But he has no business to ridicule me
that I am Krishna worshiper and equally I have no business to ridicule him
because he worships the creator in the form of Lord Siva or Lord Ganesha.
There ends the point of my discussion.
Disclaimer: I don't have the original veda to cross check the accuracy of
the text. Neither I am apt in typing or in spelling. The text and the
part of the translation, I copied from the article on Sir Ganesha by Sri
S.G. Sarvarkar of Bombay and this article is a part of part of the text
entitled ÒGlory of GaneshaÓ published by Central Chinmaya Mission, Bombay,
1986. For those who are interested, this text contains a variety of
GaneshaÕs images taken all over southeast Asia. It is interesting to note
that in North India, Ganesh has a family with two wives - but in south he
is considered as a bachelor. And it is the other way around for his
brother, Kumaraswami or Muruga. He is a bachelor in the North but has two
wives in the south. May be Ganesha went north for marriage and Kumaraswami
came down south in search of brides.
Let that Lord Ganesh, the embodiment of truth, bless every one in their
sadhana.
Om sarve bhavantu sukhinah, sarve santu nirAmayAh, Sarve bhadrani pasyantu,
ma kaschit Duhkabhak Bhavet. Om Santih, Santih, Santihi
May all be happy, may all be healthy, may all see auspeciousness, may none
suffer. Let there be peace (from obstacles of Adidaivika), Let there be
peace (from obstacles of adibhoutika) and Let there be peace( from
obstacles of adhyatmika).
Hare Krishna! Jai Ganesha! Om! Namas Sivaya!
Hari Om! Tat Sat! -
With pranams to everyone
Sadananda
