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Re: Dishonesty (was Re: The Bhagavad-Geeta - Chapter 12)
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Subject: Re: Dishonesty (was Re: The Bhagavad-Geeta - Chapter 12)
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From: aq974@lafn.org (Bon Giovanni)
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Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 20:03:50 GMT
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Apparently-To: alt-hindu@relay1.uu.net
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From news@lafn.org Sun Aug 6 15: 53:35 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: The Los Angeles Free-Net
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References: <3vrtqt$i8m@babbage.ece.uc.edu>
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Reply-To: aq974@lafn.org (Bon Giovanni)
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Sender: news@lafn.org
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"There is a Spirit which is mind and life, light and truth and vast spaces.
He contains all works, and all desires, and all perfumes, and all tastes.
He enfolds the whole Universe, and in silence is loving to all.
This is the Spirit that is in my heart, smaller than a grain of rice,
or a grain of barley, or a grain of mustard seed,
or a kernel of a grain of mustard seed.
This is the Spirit that is in my heart, greater than the earth,
greater than the sky, greater than Heaven itself, greater than all these
worlds.
This is the Spirit that is in my heart.
This is Brahman (the Creator)."
-- Chandogya Upanishad
(Juan Mascero, translator)
Brahman is exactly the subject of my earlier post, since I noticed how
in the ISKCON Gita 4:24, Swami Prabhupaada chose to translate brahma as
other than God, the Creator, Brahma. In a reply to Bon's previous
article detailing that, vivek@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) says:
>However, I have yet to find a dictionary where oblation is
>defined as butter.
Neither have I found any such dictionary. Still, since I was detailing
brahma, the discussion of havir is somewhat a distraction.
>I am not surprised that equal criticism is not applied to both
>translations which you offered, because, of course, the use
>of the term "havir" got somehow lost in the translation you
>offered.
By saying he is not surprised, Pai perhaps implies that I am biased, or
dishonest, or worse. In point of fact, havir was not `lost' in the
translation Bon offered- it simply was not the primary focus; I said in
plain words that havir is the oblation, that which was offered.
>Note that in the word-for-word translation in the Bhagavad
>Gita As It Is, the word havir is translated properly.
Note Pai used the word `properly.' Havir is transliterated properly,
but not translated properly at all.
It is proper to say that 3+1 = 4, but 3+1 is not a *proper* translation
of the word four. So too, in BG 4:24 the use of the word brahma as
`spiritual in nature' is not a proper translation. It is more a
commentary than a translation.
In looking at the difference between commentary and translation, I
recall an Ionesco play wherein a character cries out the true key to
translation is to alter the phrase from one language to another in
order to fit the culture. Hence, in that scenario, an Italian would
say MY COUNTRY IS THE NEW ITALY. Translated, he says, the phrase when
spoken by a German would be MY COUNTRY IS THE NEW GERMANY.
In Gita 4:24, changing the word brahma to mean `spiritual in nature' is
very like that. Again, I say that brahma in that verse is more properly
translated as Brahma, or God, or The Creator.
This is my considered opinion.
In the past eight months I have discovered first hand that there are in
these fora those who deep down feel no respect for any opinion that
does not glorify their own. It is noted too that there are not only
individuals but also sects about the Net who would have no one disagree
with their views, ever, on any issue, without suffering insult and
innuendo in reply, for long long periods. Those who are of that camp,
will kindly ignore my words, or not address me. Should they address
me, be assured all that we say to one another shows how we love Him,
and to what ideal we have gifted our allegiance. I say that with some
hesitancy, for I have found that by addressing anyone with mockery,
belittlement, or innuendo , but puts manure on the Feet of my Beloved.
I soiled those Feet with harsh words, and having recently cleaned those
Feet, I request that I be disincluded from any conversation invoking
innuendo or mockery on any other person.
Should I be addressed in that fashion, my Italian blood might lead me
to point it out, but hopefully, my `brahma' will now no longer
reciprocate in kind.
Jai Sai Ram
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Whatever a fine person does, so will others do; people effect behaviour
by example. -Bhagavad Gita 3:21
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