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Re: a Post to alt.hindu Why this Ramakrishna- Vivekananda bashing?
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To: alt-hindu@cis.ohio-state.edu
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Subject: Re: a Post to alt.hindu Why this Ramakrishna- Vivekananda bashing?
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From: susarla@great-gray.owlnet.rice.edu (H. Krishna Susarla)
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Date: 18 Jan 1995 00:24:43 GMT
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Distribution: world
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From news@larry.rice.edu Tue Jan 17 19: 12:34 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
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References: <3feif3$ll0@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
G. R. Vishwanath (vgr@vuse.vanderbilt.edu) wrote:
: Can u put thsi on alt.hindu?
: Subject: Why this Ramakrishna- Vivekananda bashing?
: *************************************************
: susrala@great-gray.owlnet.rice.edu (H. Krishna Susarla) wrote:
: >For example, meat is certainly made up of the Lord's material energy, but
: >this is not to say that it is therefore acceptable to consume meat, which
: >is what the Ramakrishna types preach. When you get right down to it,
: When did Ramakrishna *preach* meat-eating? He only said not to
: make a fuss about eating habits when there were far greater faults
: present inside us. He himself found it virtually impossible to take meat.
: He would sometimes touch it with his tongue, if it was given as prasad,
: so as not to "offend Mother". Only a Isckon-ite can twist this to mean
: that he *preached* meat-eating.
What he preached was that it was all "part of the same energy," or so I am
told. Therefore, it is okay to eat meat. If Ramakrishna did not speak out
against the sin of meat-eating, then it shows that he is a phony. The fact
that he initiated people into spiritual life without telling them to give
up meat is ample support of this.
Only a brainwashed mayavadi would consider meat-eating to be inconsequential.
: It is true that Vivekananda ate meat. But I will justify it by saying
: V. was after all a Kshatriya: Kshatriyas traditionally eat meat.
No. This idea is one which emerged in Kali Yuga. Aryans of all classes are
supposed to avoid meat, except possibly in survival situations.
Barbarians, on the other hand, eat anything that moves, simply to satisfy
their taste buds.
Anyway, if Vivekananda wanted to take to spiritual life, then that means
he was becoming a Brahmin. One's varna is not determined by birth, only by
guna and karma. So even if we accept that Kshatriyas could eat meat, then
still Vivekananda did wrong, as he was pursuing a Brahminical occupation
(or making a show of it, anyway).
: Also that provided V. with the necesary Rajas to carry out his social activities
: He felt that his countrymen were lost in Tamas, were physically weak and at
: that point time required some vitality rather than spiritual counsel.
Oh, give me a break!!! First of all, meat is tamasic. You can check BG
for this if you don't believe me. Tamasic foods give rise to tamasic
qualities. And further more, one does not need to have rajasic qualities to
help others. Lord Krsna tells Arjuna, who was a Kshatriya, to strive allways
to be sattvic. So, regardless of one's class, the sattivc approach is the
way to go.
What
: religion can you talk to a starving person? I think it was keeping this in
: view that he encouraged Tamasic people to get physically healthy first, taking
It is a myth that meat is actually healthy. Even the New England Journal
of Medicine and the Journal of the American Medical Association have confirmed
this. Furthermore, when a person is starving, giving meat is the *worst*
thing you can do. For one thing, you can raise more vegetarian food on the
same amount of land which it takes to raise animals for slaughter. Fruits
and vegetables are easier to grow and distribute than is meat; i think
they are also easier to cook. The real cause of starvation is therefore
mismanagement of the land. Raising animals for slaughter effectively cuts
off a lot of land that could be used for producing sattvic foods which
would feed more people.
: meat if need be. I think he wrote somewhere that a truly Satvic person
: would not be able to take meat.
So Vivekananda was not truly sattvic.
: Why do you Krsihnaites make such a fuss about non-meat eating? You
: guys presumably do not eat meat, but you still remain narrow-minded,
: sectarian and abusive of others. Going vegeatarian does not sem to have helped
: you much. Better get rid of your grosser aspects first, then start preaching
: vegetarianism.
Whine, whine, whine. The bottom line is that you have a problem with us
preaching vegetarianism because you don't want to give up eating meat. This
is not surprising, as many fools whose intelligence has been stolen by
illusion react in exactly this way when they are told that they should
give up sinful activity. Often their response is something like,"get rid
of your (some vaguely defined fault we are supposedly guilty of) and then
preach." However, what they are really thinking is "don't bother me now,
make yourselves absolutely perfect. Since this can't actually be done,
i will continue to enjoy illicit sense gratification without having to
worry about you making me feel guilty. After all, it tastes good, darnit."
As for our being narrow-minded, sectarian, and abusive, I'm sure an objective
study of the postings on alt.hindu reveals that of the devotees and the
mayavadis posting, one group consistently quotes from scripture and from
spiritual masters, while the other simply advances all sorts of speculations
and useless philosophizing. Since we devotees are speaking from scriptural
authority, there is no reason for us to be abusive; i frankly think we
have been very patient considering the outright flaming we were putting
up with in the past (of course, there is always room for improvement).
On the other hand, we should probably learn to expect abuse from the
athiests when we try to preach Krsna-consciousness.
After all, sometimes a donkey will kick and bray even when you are only
leading it to food and water. Similarly, those people whose knowledge has
been stolen by illusion and who are engaged in athiestic and animalistic
activities (like meat eating), must naturally be expected to display their
tamasic traits when confronted with the very medicine which will lead them
to eternal bliss and life.
Haribol,
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- Hari Krishna Susarla - "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, -
- susarla@owlnet.rice.edu - become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me -
- Rice University - and worship Me. Being completely absorbed -
- Class of 1995 - in Me, surely you will come to Me." -
- Biochemistry - -- Bhagavad-Gita 9.34 -
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HARER NAMA HARER NAMA
HARER NAMAIVA KEVALAM
KALAU NASTY EVA NASTY EVA
NASTY EVA GATIR ANYATHA
"IN THIS AGE OF QUARREL AND HYPOCRISY THE ONLY MEANS OF DELIVERANCE IS
CHANTING THE HOLY NAME OF LORD KRSNA. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. THERE IS
NO OTHER WAY. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY."
-- Brhan-naradiya purana 38.126
