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Krsna-conciousness is not Christian Fundamentalism
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To: alt-hindu@cis.ohio-state.edu
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Subject: Krsna-conciousness is not Christian Fundamentalism
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From: susarla@owlnet.rice.edu (H. Krishna Susarla)
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Date: 31 Jan 1995 05:24:52 GMT
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From news@larry.rice.edu Tue Jan 31 05: 36:02 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: Rice University
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References: <3g9b33$7jn@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
In article <3g9b33$7jn@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, griffin@gate.net (Kris Gilbert) says:
>
>I have recently been looking into ISKCON and trying to learn about
>Hinduism. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home and have since
>that time rejected that teaching, in large part because I cannot agree
>with its elitist, exclusivistic claims. One of the great attractions of
>Hinduism for me is its tolerance or even acceptance of other world-views.
>Based on my experience i would agree with Gandhi when he says that all
>religions are true because they have been inspired by God, yet imperfect
>because their forms and practices must be transmitted by imperfect human
I thought I would give a little bit of the ISKCON perspective on things to
prevent misunderstanding.
In the Krsna-consciousness movement, we do not condemn others for worshipping
God in different forms. We only condemn those who condemn God (or say that
He does not exist, or that His words can be perverted to manufacture your
own belief system). Lord Krsna says that He is the source of all religions,
so we accept that different religions appeared on this earth so that the Lord
could reestablish the basic principles of religion wherever religious belief
broke down. However, we also acknowledge that the Vedic literature is the
most complete source of spiritual knowledge. So, it is naturally advantageous
to study the Vedic literature as opposed to other scriptures.
You mentioned that religion becomes imperfect by transmission via imperfect
human beings. I could not agree with you more. In Vedic culture, we have
the system of the guru-cishya parampara, or the disciplic succession of
spiritual masters which is designed to pass down spiritual knowledge in
the original, uncorrupted form. Our spiritual master A.C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Srila Prabhupada is part of one such line of gurus, the Brahma-
Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya which, like the other authorized sampradayas,
can trace its origin all the way back to the supreme spiritual master,
God Himself. Therefore, we do not consider the teachings of our spiritual
master to be imperfect because they do not reflect his opinions, but rather
they are the original teachings of the Lord Himself, passed down over the
years in the authorized manner.
>beings. In my contact with ISKCON, i have had mixed reactions in regards
>to this. Sometimes the answers i get (the ones that are very similar to
>Shri. H.K. Susarla's postings), remind me quite a bit of the mindset of
>fundamentalist Christianity that i left. The underlying messages are the
I agree that it often *sounds* like fundamentalist Christianity. Back in
my misguided, mayavadi days, I probably would have said something similar.
But you must understand that anyone who is sincerely religious is going to
sound fundamentalist in a forum like alt.hindu where previously the most outspoken
members demonstrate a consistent inability to stand up for any basic,
religious morality like compassion for other creatures, etc. Furthermore,
many here claim to believe in God, but then they steadfastly refuse to
accept His words. In the face of such permissive attitudes and faithlessness,
naturally we are going to sound like fundamentalists. But who should be
blamed? Our great crime is that we don't compromise on our principles.
If the Lord says that we should refrain from illicit sex, meat-eating,
gamblin, and intoxication, then we follow this instruction, regardless of
how long ago it was given. Furthermore, when we say that we accept a
particular scripture as God's instruction, we mean it; we do not simply
accept 50% and reject whatever we don't like. This is foolishness.
So I would argue that contrast between the Hare Krsnas and other 'Hindus'
is more a result of the degeneration of religious principles on the part
of the latter as opposed to fundamentalism due to the former. This is not
a flame; i don't wish to spend time arguing over it (if you want, you can
write to me personally and we can discuss it). It's an observation I have
made after several years of reading this group. And I know I am not alone
in making that conclusion.
>same, only the outward form is different (i.e. the worship of Krishna
>instead of Jesus, and some of the "rules" are different, etc.). While i
Actually, as I said before, we do not condemn people for worshipping God
in different forms. God has millions of different names and forms. We do
encourage people to worship God as Krsna, since His form as Krsna is said
in scriptures to be the original form and also to be the most beautiful.
We do criticize people who chose to worship God by worship of one of the
demigods (i.e. Lord Shiva, Lord Ganesha, etc.). Such worship is said to
be less intelligent, according to the Gita. We also criticize those who
worship the impersonal, because they are cheating themselves out of the
real beauty of God, and also because they are misleading others with their
philosophy.
>can fully understand that point of view, having been raised in it and
>previously espousing it, i can only be disappointed with it now.
>Other times the answers i get from ISKCON are very thoughtful and
>tolerant of other faiths, looking to what is good and true in other
>religions as well as their own. From reading some things that Swami
>Prabhupada has written, though, i'm not convinced that he would be part
>of that group. Since he founded ISKCON here in the U.S., i feel wary of
>the organization as a whole, especially in light of some of the other
>reputations that ISKCON has picked up over the years. (I'm still
>inquiring into those "reputations" and have in fact found some of them to
>be false, at least from what i've seen.)
Yes, many of them are false. Of course, we are not perfect. We have had
our share of problems. But a lot of animosity that has developed against
ISKCON is primarily from irreligious people; this is the kind of thing we
have to expect. It happened in the past to other great devotees of the
Lord who took to preaching.
I was wondering: why are you wary of ISKCON because it was founded in the
US? Swami Pabhupada only came to this country because his spiritual master
ordered him to. When he arrived, he was nearly penniless and without any
support. Still, he created ISKCON to fulfill the wishes of his spiritual
master Swami Bhaktisiddhanta and his spiritual master's spiritual master
to preach Krsna-consciousness all over the world. Prabhupada never came
for some mundane, material reason. He was already beyond such desires,
as he was a sannyasin (a member of the renounced order) before he came
to the West.
>In any case, I will probably continue to look into Hinduism, although
>since i've discovered this newsgroup, i may not look to ISKCON as much
>for answers.
>
Well, I am sorry to hear that. However, I do wish you luck in your spiritual
endeavor. Let me make a few suggestions as to your pursuit. When you inquire
about a particular guru and the philosophy, you should probably consider
the following:
Does this guru believe in God?
What scriptures does this guru accept and teach from?
Does the guru accept these scriptures completely, or does he try to
'interpret' them?
How did this guru receive his spiritual knowledge? (that is, by what
sampradaya has his knowledge been transmitted)
Does this guru practice what he preaches?
Is this guru preaching love of God, or something else?
I think these questions will easily allow you to single out the saints
from the swindlers. Unfortunately, in this age of Kali, there are more of
the latter than there are of the former. Still, there are a few other
groups who are also authentic, just like our spiritual master. If you
are sincerely interested in learning about God, then He will make sure
that you meet a bona fide spiritual master. Until then, please keep my
suggestions in mind.
>take care, all,
>Kris
Haribol!
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- Hari Krishna Susarla - "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, -
- susarla@owlnet.rice.edu - become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me and -
- Rice University - worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, -
- Class of 1995 - surely you will come to Me." -
- Biochemistry - - Bhagavad-Gita 9.34 -
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