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What is religion?
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To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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Subject: What is religion?
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From: nparker@crl.com (Nathan Parker)
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Date: 7 Mar 1995 19:19:50 -0800
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From nparker@crl.com Tue Mar 7 22: 09:21 1995
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
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Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest]
[ Article crossposted from alt.religion.vaisnava ]
[ Author was Nathan Parker ]
[ Posted on 7 Mar 1995 19:19:14 -0800 ]
A lecture given for Calcutta college students by Sriman Atmatattva Das
Adhikari at Mayapur, West Bengal.
(This article is 27k, please download it if you are interested)
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There are a lot of things you can learn if you stay [here] a long
time. Since it is a short time, then I am just going to talk on religion.
You all know that this is an organisation meant for protecting and
propogating religion and you all are basicall y religious intellectuals,
that is why you are coming here instead of going to some Masonary Club or
some Lions Club. So I was thinking we should just discuss religion these
four days. It is always important because if you go for a program like
this, wh en you go back, naturally people are expecting that you learn
something about dharma. They will say (?BENGALI). They will ask that. So
you will have a clear idea of religion. It will be helpful for you to
introduce this subject matter of Krsna consciou sness.
So here we have a chart for you. If you want, later tomorrow you
can copy it down. This will be something I will be speaking on, today and
tomorrow. We will have some more extended information, explanation on
this.
The basic style of this chart is here we are explaining the
subject of religion and here we are explaining the scriptures that teach
religion. Above this line is the subject matter of religion. Below this
line are the scritpures. We find that there ar e different kinds of
living beings in this world, around us, like plants, reptiles, aquatics,
animals, insects and human. In human we find various kinds of human, some
look Mongolian, some look Aryan, some look European, some look a
combination of Europea n and Asian, half Asian, different things like
that. You see different kinds of human beings too. We see that living
beings have got different species of life. Generally we can classify them
into two. Which is easy without any previous understanding of anything.
We can easily think of these two classifications, that is, some are moving
and some are not moving. It is very simple. Some are staying in one
place like trees. Fish, birds, animals and human beings, they are moving.
And then among those who are moving we see some have no legs, and some
have one leg, some have four legs, some have two legs. This
classification is also very visible, we can easily see, just by looking.
You dont need any instrument or you dont need any previous preparation of
intellectual arrangement to understand this, you can see. Some people
have two legs, the mini bus conductors have one leg, at least in Calcutta.
Sastra says one legged means ghost. Ghosts have one leg, they say that,
in other words, they have no parti cular feet. Its just a smoke like
thing, that goes like that. So then there are two legged, just like all
of us. Then you have four legged moving animals. The two legged, human
we see that some are civilised and some are not civilised. Some are semi
civilised. Some people live in the desert, some people live in mountain
caves, some people make a little arrangement, like a house in a tree, or
half nature half built, they live like that. If you go Darjeeling side
you find people, there is a rock and they just put a thatch in front of it
and they in a tree like that. In Calcutta it is very similar, under all
staircases there are people living. It is the same consciousness. Semi
construction. In Darjeeling, they use a rock as one side of their hous e
and they just put two bamboos and they put a thatch on it and underneath
they live. There are kings in their tribe, there are ministers, they
conduct marriages, they even have seminars. Everything happens,
everything is there. In this way there are v arious levels of human
beings. And among them a small percentage are civilised. Civilised
means, not what you see in Park Street after six oclock in the evening.
Thats not called civilisation. Civilisation is something different.
Its very hard nowa days to see civilised people. But there are people
who are civilised, they are there at least. We are trying to make some
more because that is the only thing lacking (?) So we are trying to make
human beings, then we can civilise him. If he only. Why everyone wanted
to come here? Because this is the land of knowledge. They knew that this
can solve all problems of life. And if you go there you can solve the
problems of your life. This is why everybody, everyone. Why (?) came?
Not to get chicken s from Goa. He had enough chickens in his country.
Why St. Thomas came here? Not for getting shot in (?). He didnt come for
that. Because they all knew here is the storehouse of knowledge. Let us
get this knowledge, that is why they came. Of course some of them
returned with some blue diamond which destroyed their whole family. That
was very unfortunate. But apart from that they actually came for
spiritual knowledge only. This is why Sri Caitanya said bharata
bhumite...if you are beast or politi cian but if you are human being then
he says(?) that is the method for making (?) What is (?)? (?) means
preaching bhagavat dharma. So many people went. Give me (?)
international loan, this and that. They were all begging. Then one old
man went, hes also from Calcutta. He went there and they asked him, what
do you need. I dont need anything, I came to give you something. So
they said... (end of cassette)
So they said, this is very shocking information. From the poor
country. The country of death. The country of starvation death.
Somebody is coming here and he is telling us things. Then he said, yes I
will tell you how to be happy. You have no happi ness because you are not
peaceful. I will tell you how to be peaceful. But before I tell you just
lift your hands and dance while I chant. And then he chanted in Tompkins
Park. So this is the real wealth of this country. Bhagavat dharma,
bhagavat con sciousness, Krsna consciousness. So if you can take this in
your life and make your life very successful. Just like Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati was met by Prabhupada when he was like you. He was a little
younger maybe, he was 22 years old. And Bhaktisid dhanta Sarasvati Thakur
told him that you make your life perfect, and you preach in the English
language, bhagavat dharma. This will benefit you and others. And you are
seeing today how it has expanded into a whole worldwide Krsna conscious
community. So now you can see that people are going to Indian embassies
and asking for visas. This is new history. Before Indian embassy was
empty, nobody goes there. Except for getting some business result. But
now people are queing up in front of Indian emba ssy. Why? Because Gaura
Purnima is coming. They all want to come to Mayapur. Hundreds and
hundreds of devotees are going asking, give us visa. And some people go
fast in front of the embassy like Mathura asking for entry visa. And they
are saying, w e want to stay in India we dont want to go. So they do all
kinds of tricks, they go to Malaysia, they go to Nepal, they appear in one
form, expand in another form, they do all tricks to come to India. So the
quest for India has started again. Everybody is marching towards India.
Why? Not because V.P. Singh has got his Dal party up there. Some other
people who are not dull are chanting Hare Krsna in the streets, thats why.
Thats why they are all coming. So this is the goal of life. Religion.
Real r eligion. So I want you young boys to think about it, you are all
intelligent boys. Dont accept anything blindly, but dont reject anything
blindly either. You have got your freedom not to accept, but you cannot
reject blindly. Be scientific, dont accep t unscientifically. Accept
scientifically, this is a scientific explanation of consciousness and
matter. You cannot but talk of religion if you want to discuss
consciousness. There cannot be a non-religious consiousness discussion.
that is the only m istake, the biggest mistake and the greatest mistake
that Newton did. He saw the philosophers were religious and he was
thinking because of this their thinking was not growing. They are not
able to question and challenge, because consciousness is there and that is
blocking them because they are afraid of God, so they are not challenging.
So Newton was thinking, if I separate the consciousness from matter and
simply study matter there will be no fear of God, so you dont have to
worry about challenging a nybody. In this way you can learn alot. Thats
what he was thinking, he was totally mistaken, totally mistaken. And
finally at the fag end of his life he accepted there must be a creator.
Without creator it is not possible for these laws to function. E instein
accepted that too. Einstein is the only one who explained the blabberings
of Newton. And all the blabberings have not been explained either. There
are still some more blabberings left. Most probably those blabberings
speak about God. Most pro bably. Only God knows because God must be
knowing these things. Einstein left many scrolls of that book without
explanation. As soon as he hit with some physic law he just took it, he
was in ecstasy. He was only left with thirty years of life so he ha d
enough syllabus to study. So he left the rest of the book, he never
managed to read it, nobody has read it up to now. And God only knows
finally what kind of poem Isaac Newton wrote. Maybe bhaje Govinda, most
probably in Latin language, thats all. B ecause there is no locus standi.
This was a big thing with Newton. There is no locus standi in any of his
physical rules. The real locus standi is that you have got asraya, that
is shelter, called God. Which he himself proved, to some extent, finally.
So there is no lucus standi in his principles. The real locus standi is
Srimad Bhagavatam. Otherwise you suffer ad infinitum. At least if you
want to talk in Newtons language. So when you go back you tell your
friends in the college, there is a lot o f science in a small district in
a small village called Nadia. Sriman Mahaprabhu is the most accomplished
scientist that creation has ever seen. He is the biggest scientist, if
you really want to know the science, the science is the science of the
soul , not science of oxygen, hydorgen and helium. That is just very
external. The real science is the science of the soul, atma vijnana. It
really solves the problem. So you should take to these studies very
seriously. Study Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. And t hen take to Srimad
Bhagavata Purana. And while doing this you should chant Hare Krsna Hare
Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Then
your life will become successful. One young man met Bhaktisiddhanta and
what you see no w. You are all young men you are all coming and meeting
Bhaktisiddhantas line. Now let us see what you do. Prabhupada always
told that when he saw the Bengali gentlemen. He said I am one Bengali I
am trying to do something, you are all Bengalis so l et us see. It is not
a request it is a challenge. If you are young men with straight backbones
then take to this challenge and you should prove that you are not less
than anybody (?).
QUESTION: You said about controlling the senses. I don't believe about
controlling the senses with force. Can you tell something about
controlling the senses naturally?
ANSWER: Did I say you should control the senses by force? Natural way to
control the senses is to chant Hare Krsna. Because you are already saying
that you dont beleive in forcibly controlling senses, so they should be
naturally controlled. That is your statement. The natural way of
controlling only should happen in your natural position. If you are not
in your natural position how can you relate to a natural process?
Understand? If you want to relate to a natural process you have to be in
a natural situation. Now you are in abnormal situation because your
heart is dirty, so the heart has to be cleaned. If the heart is cleansed
nicely then there will be natural situation and natural control of the
senses. That is the way. Rupa Goswami has written this beautiful verse.
He says that when I chant the Holy Name of Krsna it goes in the courtyard
of my heart and it controls the senses and gets total conquerance
naturally. You want natural control this is the process. You chant.
QUESTION: I have been chanting but I cannot control my senses.
ANSWER: You shouldn't force. You dont want to force, right? So
naturally they will get controlled. How long have you been chanting?
QUESTION: One round every day for three years.
ANSWER: Alright. You know how long you have been enjoying your senses in
this material existence?
QUESTION: 20 years.
ANSWER: No! From time immemorial. So you haven't done anything yet.
You have been enjoying from the time you came to this material world and
you're only chanting one round for a few years, and then you say why are
my senses not controlled. One man came to me for medicine. I said what
is your problem. He said constipation. So I said, alright you take this
medicine. So I gave the medicine, he touched the medicine and immediately
he was opening his kaupinas. So I said, what are you doing? And he said
I am taking the medicine, so I should get ready. So I said, the medicine
is still in your hand only, you havent even eaten it, before that what is
the necessity of opening the kaupinas?
QUESTION: Is there any fixed amount......(?)
ANSWER: It is not quantity, it is quality. But to bring in quality
sometimes you have to depend on quantity too. Just like Vesper scooter or
Bajaj scooter. Bajaj started producing about 6,000 scooters per month.
(?) five per month. Because if you did a good amount of quantity then at
least 5 scooters would be good enough for running. So if you do that for
a long time then your quality increases. This is called quality
controlled process. So for controlling quality first you have to produce
some quantity And then you can see what the quality is. So we say chant
16 rounds. So if you chant 16 rounds that is a good amount of quantity
and the rest of the time engage your senses in reading and working for
Krsna. That way you can increase the quality of your Hare Krsna. One
name of Krsna is enough to purify the sins of everybody in this world.
What to speak of just yourself. It is so powerful. But the point is you
have to chant with that quality. And for this you should read about Nama
- Holy Name.
QUESTION: (Not able to hear tape clearly)
ANSWER: Did he say it was good? He didnt say, so why should we say. He
seems to be God, that is a problem.
When you say Vaisnava there is a lot of, you cant generalise the
word Vaisnava. Because in Vaisnava there are various levels. There are
Vaisnavas just by dress, just by talk, who read Vaisnava books but never
follow, there are so many kinds of Vaisnava s. So you cant generally say
Vaisnava. So if you see some people in the jail and you and go and
complain to the government, they are citizens, why are you giving them
trouble. So then they will say, they are citizens, there are many kinds
of citizens. There are citizens who cut others pockets, for them we need
jail. So there are different levels of Vaisnava. Generally anyone whose
mouth has the name of Krsna is a Vaisnava. That is general and then there
are many, many different explanations of Vaisnava. So depending on
Vaisnavas level of his understanding of Krsna, then he may be either
fruitive or speculative or whatever, like that. But if he is a perfect
Vaisnava, then he is (?QUOTE) That is why we write the word pure here -
pure devotional service. Pure devotee means he does not have any such
material demand from Krsna. He simply surrenders to Krsna totally. He
understands that Krsna will provide and Krsna will maintain. That Krsna
is my only maintainer, Krsna is my only protector. So tha t is called a
perfect Vaisnava.
QUESTION: But I think it is not easy to become......
ANSWER: Why only you think, I also think the same. It is not very easy.
It is very difficult, it is true. What I am saying is that the process is
easy but the accomplishment is difficult. You have to understand.
Process is very easy. You chant, purify your heart, thats all. But
because you are not sincere, you are saying this. If we are sincere then
it is easy. The problem is we are saying please take me, but actually we
dont want to go. So if we make our sincerity more strong then the process
and accomplishment will both be easy. (?QUOTE) Srimad Bhagavatam says,
that very moment you can accomplish. But that moment does not come to us.
That is why Bhaktivinode Thakur says, when that time will come when I will
get to that level of surrender. So we should try for that level. And how
do you try for that level, in the association of the devotees. Like
minded people. Just like the advocates have Bar Club. Why? They have
all the law books in their house. Why not just study and become very
emminent lawyer. Why go to the Bar Club? Because they discuss different
cases. By association with them they come across very nice legal points.
So they become perfect advocates. You have to be sincere. Because you
have so much sincerity, at least you are lamenting it is not happening,
this is a very good sign. It is a very good sign, that, why is it that I
am not becoming sincere? Why is it that I am not going foreward? This is
a very good sign, and this sign if it is kept without the association of
devotees it will lead you to a very dangerous situation of rolling on the
floor and crying and beating on the chest. So please protect this
lamentation by proper association. So if we keep our material
inclinations tight and then we also want to take off, we shouldn't try to
do that. If you want to take off you should first kick out these
tendencies, karma, jnana and upasana.
QUESTION: Material knowledge required.......
ANSWER: That is an incomplete question. You are asking material
knowledge required, complete your question then I can give answer. Just
make your question clear.
QUESTION: Is material knowledge required?
ANSWER: Required for what?
QUESTION: For living.
ANSWER: So you should have mentioned that, for living. For living
material knowledge is required. That is my answer.
QUESTION: Then science is also required to a certain extent.
ANSWER: To a certain extent, yes. True. But science is required, not
what Newton says. We dont even accept what he says as science, first of
all.
QUESTION: But Vedas dont tell us how to make planes.......
ANSWER: It does say. Have you studied Vedas?
QUESTION: No.
ANSWER: So you shouldn't say Veda doesnt say. Then you are insulting
Vedas, that you cannot say. You havent studied Vedas but I have studied
science. So this is the difference between you criticising and me
criticising. I can criticise because I have studied science and Vedas.
You have studied only science not Vedas. So study the Vedas and then
speak. Without studying dont just generalise like that. Vedas do say how
to build planes. There is a whole section in the (?) Sastra how to make
planes and how to fly them. So why do you say Vedas dont say? And those
planes dont depend on Husseins mercy. So they are better planes...
...People means goats. People means what, majority. Majority means who dont
know how to put left (?). Dont talk about them, they are only good for
lifting V.P. to his seat, thats all. Majority means foolish.
QUESTION: Another question.....
ANSWER: What about this question? Now, is Vedas required or not for
ultimate purpose? And do Vedas teach everything or not? Yes, so then you
ask your next question.
QUESTION: If you talk to people the first question they ask is, can you
show me God?
ANSWER: Yes. Tell them I can show.
QUESTION: How?
ANSWER: Tell them, then we will see what they say. Then come back and
tell me that.
QUESTION: Then show me God.
ANSWER: Bring them here and I will show them. You want to show, I will
teach you how to show also. Depending on the audience, depending on the
character. There is different characters who tell you please show me God.
Some characters, I give them a slap. And when the head reels they see
God. That's one way. Another way is put their hand inside the electric
plug, then they will also see God. Various ways of showing God. Depends
on the patient. It's not one instruction for everybody. If somebody is
having some disease, you give them some medicine, if they get cured, they
see God. If somebody is hungry, you give them food, they see God. If
somebody is waiting in the line and the queue is too long for seeing (?)
you give them a black ticket, they see God. (?) This is Bhagavan to them.
So you can show God in many ways. The thing is, instead of trying to see
God you should act in such a way that God sees you. Suppose the Chief
Minister wants to see a sweeper, it is very easy. But if the sweeper
wants to see the minister it is very difficult. So, you can see God, but
best is first act in such a way that God can see you. And then it becomes
much easier than you trying to see God. So there are various ways of
showing God. I have been showing God for the past so many years. So I
am quite experienced in showing God. So you have to see who is asking for
the sight. And depending on that you have to rub coconut oil or mustard
oil in your hand. There are various ways. You can show many things, as
long as they are very much tuned to mental speculation. You can show
them anything.
QUESTION: Is it enough to go in front of the Deity and ask that let me
live long etc.
ANSWER: Yes, to keep the body well, but there are other things too, which
I mentioned. The whole class was on that subject, body is not everything.
So for keeping the body well, that is enough. Every day go to the temple
and take some caranamrta and say Bhagavan (?), thats enough for the body.
But you are not just the body, there are many other things. So if you
need to feed the soul, then you have to surrender. If you simply want
some prasad two times a day, keep on praying in front of the deity, wh en
the prasada is ready they will give you. Thats one way of surrendering.
QUESTION: Who wrote the Vedas?
ANSWER: Thats a very good question. Vedas are apauruseya, not composed
by any human being. Vedas are, just like if you take a book and you want
to know who wrote the book, you look in the book and it says who wrote the
book, its the best source of info rmation. You take the Vedas, and in the
Vedas it is mentioned that they are apauruseya, it means not composed by
any human being. And eternal. And it is mentioned also, it is coming
from God. God gave these Vedas to satisfy the needs of the living bei ngs
who come into this world. Just like when they give you an Ambassador car
they give you an instruction booklet. You have to change the tyres once
in so many years, months whatever. Lubrication, or carriage work, or
wheel alignment, whatever, brake testing. So like that God gave the Vedas
and the world. This is the instruction booklet for the world. And then
there is also instruction booklet how to get out of it. So that is called
Vedas. It is not done by any human. It is given by God who is e ternal,
so Vedas are also eternal. They are sanatana, no beginning and no end.
They are vast, they have all kinds of knowledge. Generally there are two
categories, is known as mantra portion and samhita portion. The mantras
are different prayers, and the samhitas are telling what to do. How to
exist, what different activities to do. And then there are various
classifications. Anybody can read Vedas, Vedas are for everyone, but the
point is that its too big, its so vast. For a human in one life to read
all the verses of the Vedas and to just understand the etemological
meaning, one life is not enough. So that is why there are many books on
the Vedas, so people study those books. Just like if you want to study
whole constitution, if somebody is th rowing a stone on your window, its
very difficult, you just read about a particular aspect. So for different
results there are certain aspects, just like karma kanda is 80%
Practically those who are interested in spiritual life they dont touch
karma kan da at all, they dont even touch it. Because what is the use?
And jnana kanda also, Mahaprabhu said, (?QUOTE), its simply poisonous (?)
forget. Thats what Mahaprabhu says. So its not humanly possible to study
all the four Vedas, its too much, and not n ecessary. Suppose you want to
build a house, there is a portion of the Vedas that tells you how to build
a house. Then you just read that and build a house, thats all. This we
call as science. For living, you need material knowledge. But what is
mater ial knowledge? Material knowledge is knowledge of how to use
matter. Not there is a black hole in the universe theory, this is not
science. This is nowhere near truth. You will be shocked, if you
actually read these books, how these books were written , you will get
shock. You will never go to university, even for hiding for the rainy
season, you will not go. It is so horrible, it is actually a slaughter of
the soul. But anyway keep going. So there is so much science in the
Vedas. Vedas say how to build house, boat, ships, planes and how to fly
them. Everything is in the Vedas. Its simply that to use that you have
to be in that standard. So if you are in proper civilization you can do
all that for studying the Vedas. So if you want to know how to build a
ship and you just read (?) Sastra and you build a boat, you go in the
ocean and it works. Not that you have to go to Switzerland to know how to
build a boat. First people of Switzerland they dont know how to build a
boat, because they are ca ught by the land, they are caught right in the
middle. So we dont have to do all that, this is all hogus bogus thing.
Vedas say what to do. Artharva Veda means body building, body
destruction, world building, world destruction. (?) Vedas also says inf
ormtation on neculear energy. Everything is there in the Veda. But you
may say if everything is there why we are not able to use it. I told you
everything is there, coca cola is there, potato chips is there, but you
cant get it but the (?) are getting. They are smaller country, they got
independance after you, but they have coke and you dont have coke. So
even in your modern (?) there is some standard. You cant get coca cola
because you fried them, you get this maha cola, that it. Same way, for
ever y single thing there is a standard if you want to use the Vedas, you
have to come to that Vedic standard. As long as you are having fast food
shops in Calcutta, you cannot build planes according to Veda. As long as
the (?) play electronic games in Park Street, you cannot build planes
according to the Veda. So you bring that civilization you will see that
you will be building ships and you will be going, and you will building
planes and they will be flying. Why planes, you can fly on the mat, this
info rmation is available in the Veda. Sit on the mat, sprinkle some
water, chant a mantra and it flies. This is advanced science. So you can
have all that if you follow the standard. And if you dont follow the
standard then you cant. Vedas are there to s olve the problems. But we
have to follow, and if you want to start to follow it the first principle
of the Veda in this age is to chant the name of Hari. Hare Krsna Hare
Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
[end]
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