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Re: VISHNU and SHIVA
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Subject: Re: VISHNU and SHIVA
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From: vijaypai@rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai)
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Date: 10 Dec 1995 18:46:28 GMT
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Approved: srh <srh@rbhatnagar>
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Article: 697 of soc.religion.hindu
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Newsgroups: soc.religion.hindu
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Organization: none
In soc.religion.hindu, softsols@aol.com (SoftSols) wrote:
>Hello, All.
Howdy. This'll probably be my first and only followup on
the main subject of this thread, primarily from a shortage
of time.
> The Trinity is just that: a Trinity. There can be no question of
>who is more powerful, because in a trinity, one does not exist
sattvaM rajas tama iti prakRter guNaas tair
yuktaH paraH puruSha eka ihaasya dhatte
sthity-aadaye hari-virin~ci-hareti saMGYaaH
shreyaaMsi tatra khalu sattva-tanor nRNaam syuH
(Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.23)
The transcendental Personality of Godhead is indirectly associated
with the three modes of material nature, namely passion, goodness,
and ignorance, and just for the material world's creation,
maintenance, and destruction He accepts the three qualitative forms
of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Of these three, all human beings can
derive ultimate benefit from Vishnu, the form of the quality of
goodness.
>without the
>others. If there were no Brahma, there would be no Vishnu or Mahesh.
Actually, it is the other way around; without Narayana (Vishnu)
there would be no question of Brahma or Mahesh (or anyone or
anything). And, since they cannot exist outside of His desire, they
must be strictly dependent upon Him. The Vedas confirm this --
NaaraayaNa UpaniShad:
atha puruSho ha vai naaraayaNo 'kaamayata prajaH sRjeyeti ...
naaraayaNaad brahmaa jaayate
naaraayaNaad prajaapatiH prajaayate
naaraayaNaad indro jaayate
naaraayaNaad aShTau vasavo jaayante
naaraayaNaad ekaadasha rudraa jaayante
naaraayaNaad dvaadashaadityaaH
Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create
living entities.... From Narayana, Brahma is born, and from Narayana
the patriarchs are also born. From Narayana, Indra is born, from
Narayana the eight Vasus are born, from Narayana the eleven Rudras
are born, from Narayana the twelve Adityas are born.
> Besides, if there were no creation, none of the three would ever
>exist, because their existence depends on manifest reality
This is an amazingly circular argument, taken in the context of
scripture (to which, I noticed, your post didn't refer). In the
Bhagavad Gita Krishna (Vishnu) says "prakRtiM svaam avaShTabhya,
visRjaami punaH punaH // bhuuta-graamam imam kRtsnam /
avashaM prakRter vashaat" -- The whole cosmic order is under Me.
Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and
under My will it is annihilated at the end (9.8); similarly,
the Vedanta Sutra (1.1.2) says "janmaady asya yataH" (creation, etc.
comes from Him), and the Srimad Bhaagavatam (1.1.1) explains
"oM namo bhagavate vaasudevaaya
janmaady asya yato 'nvayaad itaratash caartheShv abhiGYaH svaraaT"
-- "I meditate upon Lord Shri Krishna ... the primeval cause of all
causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of the manifested
universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all
manifestations, and He is independent..."
By simple deduction it is not possible for Vishnu (Krishna) to
simultaneously be dependent on creation and also the independent
cause of the creation. And since all the scriptural statements
show the latter to be true, the former position must indeed
be rejected.
>So, God is and always will be
>supreme.
Yes indeed. Jaya Shri Krishna!
>- Pawan
(all scriptural translations by Srila Prabhupada; copyright BBT Intl,
used w/ permission)
Yours,
Vijay
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