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Re: I am NOT a Nazi . . . Sigh

vivek@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) wrote:

>Let's set the record straight - I am not claiming that Mr. Malik
>is a Nazi at all. I am, however, pointing out his inconsistencies
>with regard to his stands on soc.religion.vaisnava and 
>rec.music.white-power, and pointing out that he's trying to use
>the same fear tactics that he used during SRV to try to attack
>the proponents of the SRH reorg.

And Vivek, I ANSWERED your charges of inconsistency.  I am including
at the end of this article, the article in which I originally answered
these charges in news.groups as well as the article I posted to the
discussion in soc.religion.hindu referring readers to news.groups if
they were  interested in reading the rebuttal.

After I posted that rebuttal you went ahead and repeated your charges.

>Why is it that the proponents have tried to reach a compromise
>solution which _avoid_ a CFV? Why is it that others have spoken
>out in favor of reaching a compromise solution?

The "compromise" proposed was to implement the RFD without even
bothering to take a vote.  Others have spoken out to implement a
compromise - but they are referring to dropping the RFD and let Ajay
choose his own co-moderators.

>|> Not only Nazis want to deny freedom to others.  By punishing Ajay Shah
>|> for expressing his personal opinion about the correct name for a new
>|> newsgroup, Vivek et al. also wish to deny  freedom of expression.

>I'm sure that you realize a thread is automatically considered dead
>when you drag in the "Nazi argument". *plonk*

Ah, but Vivek  -  YOU are the one who brought up the issue of
rec.music.white-power  and cross-posted it to soc.religion.hindu.

All I have done is REPLY to your charges.

And of course you are right.  When YOU brought up
rec.music-white-power in an article posted to soc.religion.hindu, I
should have just replied *plonk*.  I will do so in the future and
state that I am doing so based on your advice.

>|> ---------------- start quote -------------------
>|> Re: Fishy E-Mail: vote against soc.religion.vaishnava
>|> From: vivek@medea.cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) 
>|> Date: 1995/11/13
>|> 
>|> MessageID: 488lua$mk7@larry.rice.edu#1/1
>|> 
>|> Therefore, I would hope that peopl of good conscience would get
>|> quite angry with you if you scuttle a newsgroup for your political
>|> desires, and they would see to it that your politics don't interfere
>|> with religion any more.
>|> 
>|> That is what you will have to contend with as the result of your
>|> actions.
>|> 
>|> Can you say karma?
>|> 
>|> -Vivek
>|> 
>|> ----------------- End quote ----------------------------------------

>Here's what I had written in answer to Arun's charges regarding
>the above "threat". I hope that this time, Arun, you actually
>read what I've written, because then you will see that your
>"threat" claim is hogwash:

And again Vivek you reply with large cut and paste paragraphs from the
RFD and never address the point I am making.

READ the following sentences from the article I quote above.  

They ARE a THREAT.

>|> That is what you will have to contend with as the result of your
>|> actions.
>|> 
>|> Can you say karma?

Definition of threat from Random House Dictionary of the English
Language:

threat: 1) a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict
punishment, injury, death, or loss on someone in retaliation for, or
conditionally upon some action or course;

Now, you say "as the result of your actions".  And the dictionary
definition of threat states "in retaliation for .. some action" .

Now Vivek, why not just admit that you threatened Ajay?

He is facing the _loss_ of his freedom to moderate soc.religion.hindu
in a manner he feels is most appropriate for the advancement of hindu
dharma.

Arun Malik


-------- Start quote  1 ----------

vivek@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) wrote:
<snip>
>However, when the proposal for rec.music.white-power came up, not only
>did you not point out its lack of justification, as others had done,
>but you went to great lengths to compliment the proponent on his good
>manners.
<snip>
>Overall, I'm baffled by the amount of energy you've expended to try to
>defeat SRV and now this reorg of SRH, and the amount of energy you've
>expended praising the proponents of the rec.music.white-power RFD. 

Well, at least you avoided calling me a Nazi directly.  

You've left it up to others to infer it.  

I apologize for the length of this response, but as many readers of
this thread may not be aware of what I posted in the other thread, and
as Vivek is still "baffled" by my articles in that thread - even after
having read them - I feel I should clarify my stand on that issue - as
I am decidedly not a Nazi. 

First, you're "baffled by the amount of energy" I've "expended
praising the proponents of the rec.music.white-power RFD".

Since I usually post *far* more than four to five articles to a thread
in which I am interested, the fact I contributed *only* a few articles
(are you sure it was just two - I vaguely recall five but I'm not
sure) shows that I have expended *minimal* energy to the discussion of
that group.  

(And one of those was defending the use of anonymous email accounts as
I also read alt.support.ex-cult and its important for people who have
been abused by cults to be able to use anonymous remailers for their
own physical safety.  Another article I posted to that thread was a
clarification of a comment I made  about a request by the proponents
of soc.support.disassociation to alter the voting procedure the next
time that newsgroup comes up for a vote.)  

I read the first 30 or 40 articles posted to that thread, responded to
a couple, and then stopped reading it altogether.  Why?  
Because no one needs convincing to vote against them - so there is no
need for me to spend my time arguing against them as dozens of others
have already more than adequately flamed them - and their proposal is
*certain* to be defeated.  Whereas the outcome of the proposed SRH
re-organization is still in doubt.

If a CFV is posted, I will vote against them. 

Second, the article in which you state I "compliment" the Nazis "on
their good manners" was directed solely towards *correcting* an
allegation by one of the most active opponents of the proposed
newsgroup that a set of guidelines posted by a  Nazi were *against*
Usenet policy when in fact the guidelines very closely followed Usenet
policy.  

Since I posted that article, that particular opponent of the new
newsgroup has not repeated the charge (as far as I know) that the
guidelines violate Usenet policy.  Instead he shifted his argument to
emphasizing that there is not enough traffic to justify the new
newsgroup.  This is a far *stronger* argument.

Therefore, by pointing out that one of his arguments against the Nazis
was incorrect, I have *assisted* him by helping him to focus on
*stronger* arguments to be made against the creation of that
newsgroup.

Now, as to my priorities.  I've focused primarily on the RFDs for
soc.religion.vaishnava, soc.religion.hindu,
soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir and voted yes for
soc.humanities.sanskrit.   

All RFD/CFVs that might interest a Hindu. 

Arun Malik

-------  End quote 1 -------

------- Start quote 2 -------

Vivek Sadananda Pai <vivek@cs.rice.edu> wrote:

>Overall, I'm baffled by the amount of energy you've expended to try to
>defeat SRV and now this reorg of SRH, and the amount of energy you've
>expended praising the proponents of the rec.music.white-power RFD.

Vivek is easily baffled.  

If you are at all interested, you can read the rebuttal to this latest
charge by Vivek in news.groups.   I didn't bother cross-posting my
rebuttal to SRH as the discussion of rec.music.white-power is taking
place there.  Besides, all Vivek does by accusing me of being a Nazi,
however obliquely, is reveal just how desperate he is to discredit me
for posting the proof that the SRH reorganization is motivated by
vengeance against Ajay Shah.

<snip>

----- End quote 2 ---------
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