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Re: ARTICLE : Becoming Hindu

shrao@nyx.net (Shrisha Rao) wrote:
>"janahan (j.) skandaraniyam" <skandar@nortel.ca> wrote:

>Is that right?  If so, then why can we not say that "one's own
>realizations are justification enough" for such things as a hare's
>horn, a flower in the sky, a childless-woman's-son, etc.? 

Are these things related to spirituality?
The third eye is a spiritual phenomenon.

>If things
>are to be accepted without proper evidence based simply upon "one's
>own realizations," then anything at all would become acceptable.

Nope. Again, only things related to spirituality. But why
would "anything" become acceptable? And that too to everyone.
Notice I used the word "one" in my statements. In other
words, through "your" own realizations, "you" can verify the
claim about the third eye to "yourself", not to anyone else,
otherwise it would be blind faith.

>> >To come back to the main question, it is beyond question that
>> >Vivekananda was not classically well-schooled in Vedanta; that his
>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> Classically?
>
>Yes, that's right.  By that term I mean a proper schooling in Shruti

You mean "Vivekananda was not well-schooled in classical Vedanta".
Although Vedanta is Vedanta, I guess you are trying to distinguish
between Vedanta and Vivekananda's synthesis of Vedanta.

>and in the classical subjects of grammar, etc., and also a rigorous
>training in the prasthAna-traya texts, etc., which is done by serious
>"classical" students by full-time effort lasting several years (twelve
>according to tradition, but may vary somewhat depending upon the
>individual, the specific school, teacher, etc.).

Yes, I know. But again, 
like you said, it depends on the teacher and the disciple. What
is important is the essence of Vedanta, not the grammer etc. 
associated with it. I am sure you have heard of Shankaracharya's 
"Bhaja Govindam".  Now, if the teacher has realized Brahman, he
embodies the essence of Vedanta, and can transmit its essence
to a spiritually qualified disciple over a certain period without
having to teach the disciple the vocabulary, grammer, etc. He
can teach Vedanta to the disciple, however he so deems fit.
Ofcourse, the disciple also has to put a large amount of effort.

>I'm sorry; you've got me there.  All I know is what I read from
>someone else.  

Interesting, I hope your opinions  of Vivekananda are not based
entirely on what someone else told you. 

>Indeed?  Now, this is exactly the kind of feelgood rubbish that sets
>apart the ersatz neo-Vedanta or pseudo-Vedanta of the likes of
>Vivekananda, from the Real Thing.  The approach of the
>pseudo-Vedantins seems to be, "let's wave our hands all over the
>place, for all that we point to is Brahman."  This does justice
>neither to Advaita nor to any other meaningful doctrine , and somehow,
>people seem to miss the fact that even purely mundane fields and
>studies need a sustained effort and discipline spanning years or
>decades, and expect that Vedanta, which by all accounts is a superior
>kind of learning, will come instantly and effortlessly.  That
>assumption, that there will be great reward with no meaningful effort,
>and that the rigors and disciplines laid down by tradition to acquire
>this knowledge may be conveniently dispensed with, alone is enough to
>boggle the mind of any straight-thinking person.  Of course, it is
>nonetheless a convenient delusion to have, so there are any number of
>misguided innocents who will guilelessly accept it without
>examination.


Indeed? Please tell me Shirsha, how you came to the conclusion that
I am a "pseudo-Vedantist" with no training in the "classical" school of 
Vedanta? How do you know that I have not studied the Shruti under a
"classically" qualified Guru? My statements that you quoted were my
claims on Vivekananda's spirituality, not his works, not the RK mission,
nothing else, it was only on Vivekananda's spirituality. Now tell me,
Shirisha, if I have completed my studies of the "classical" doctrines,
am I qualified enough, or do you think that I could have achieved enough 
realization to make such a claim?


                                                      J.
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