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Re: Atmaa : Do I have one ?
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To: soc-religion-hindu@uunet.uu.net
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Subject: Re: Atmaa : Do I have one ?
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From: ntiwari@rs1.esm.vt.edu (N. Tiwari)
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Date: 13 Feb 1996 00:38:30 GMT
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Newsgroups: soc.religion.hindu
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Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
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References: <4eumgs$cl6@babbage.ece.uc.edu> <4f0v5b$t00@babbage.ece.uc.edu> <4f6drh$eep@babbage.ece.uc.edu> <4fbmpn$9qg@babbage.ece.uc.edu> <4fj62v$kis@babbage.ece.uc.edu>
Roy Raja (rajaroy@ecf.toronto.edu) wrote:
: In article <4fbmpn$9qg@babbage.ece.uc.edu>,
: N. Tiwari <ntiwari@rs3.esm.vt.edu> wrote:
: >Let us see. Since the time, I became aware of myself (birth)
: >my body has changed its shape and size. Yet, I have existed.
: >So, I is not the form of the body.
: This brings up some fascinating questions? Am I the same all
: the time? Don't I change with new experiences?
: Also where am I ? Am I in my body, or even outside my body?
: Am I somewhere in my body, or all over my body? Do I grow in
: size when the body grows?
Who knows. Atleast I do not know. The scriptures say:
No. You do not. Since you are the unchanging one. And
no one can really prove or disprove it. It is a matter
of proving to your ownself. By an experiential process.
On a somewhat tangential note:
Consider a specie. It is living pretty well. Now we
have some major climatic changes. And the specie
adapts in a major way for survival purposes. Say,
earlier the specie was vegetarian. Now it eats
meat. Earlier, it was aquatic. Now is is terrestrial.
The question is: Did the specie actually survive.
Or did it die.
The threshold you are alluding about, is beyond argument
and reason. Atleast to me. The journey of darshan starts
there.
: >
: >What about my memory. That which call software. I know that
: >I have forgotten lots of things. Some things still remain
: >in my sub_conscious. Some things remain in my conscious.
: >But the contents of these two memory banks, have gone
: >thru repeated deletions, additions, and modifications. And
: >yet I KNOW THAT I AM THE SAME. So, my memory is not I.
: How do I know that I am the same? It is really difficult
: to claim that, since I don't know myself.
Yes. So, know thyself. That is the pre-requisite. Till
then, it is all academic.
: >
: >Having rid of the psycho-somatic (pshyco == memory, emotions)
: >(somatic == body) aspectes of myself, whatever is left is
: >may be partly I.
: The crucial question is : Is there anything left if I get rid
: of psycho-somatic aspects of myself?
That is an interesting question. The Vedic Hindus said yes. However,
I think that Charvaaka and other materialists (and Buddhists) said:
"The notion of Self, is an outcome of the special mix of the material
and psychological identities." The moment you destroy this mix,
Self ceases to exist. Now that was a wonderful argument. Nevertheless,
it could not be proved. (Neither the opposite has been). But, that
argument DID give the Vaidik Indians a lot to ponder, a lot to think.
The question remains unanswered even till todate.
--
Nachiketa Tiwari
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