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ARTICLE : Bhagavata and Padma Puranas (was Re: REQUEST : What is VEDANTA...)
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To: ghen@netcom.com
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Subject: ARTICLE : Bhagavata and Padma Puranas (was Re: REQUEST : What is VEDANTA...)
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From: Sankar Jayanarayanan <kartik@Eng.Auburn.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:43:24 -0500 (CDT)
Jaldhar H.Vyas wrote:
[..]
> The problem with the Veda is that it is off-limits to women and Shudras.
> As it would be unjust to deny access to the shastras to the vast majority
> of Dharmik people
I don't think you realized the vagueness of the above lines.
Firstly, yes, women and shudras are not allowed to learn the Vedas. You've
called that a "problem" - why?
You say that "it is unjust to deny access...the vast majority". My question is -
If it were unjust, *why* are the women and shudras denied access to the Vedas?
If the essence of the Vedas and the Puranas were the same, why isn't everyone
allowed to study the Vedas too, since there really is nothing "extra" in it?
I'll make my argument much clearer:
1) If there is something important in the Vedas not to be found in the Puranas:
the puranas are surely a poor substitute for the Vedas, since it misses its
very purpose - that of capturing the essence of the Vedas.
2) If there is nothing important in the Vedas that isn't in the Puranas:
(i) it makes *no sense* to bar a section of the society (viz. shudras) from
learning something *unimportant*.
(ii) there would be very little to be gained by studying the Vedas instead
of the Puranas (which is not the case).
> Maharshi Veda Vyas took the essence of the Veda and
> wrote the Mahabharata (of which the Bhagavad Gita is a part) and the
> Purana which he taught to his student Suta Pauranik.
If Vyasa wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Padma purana, he must have been
a Tamilian :-).
No, I'm not kidding! The Bhagavatam contains a LOT of material which is
*definitely* written by a Tamilian!
1. In Bhagavatam 11.5.38-40, it is mentioned that the Kaveri, the Tamrapani,
the Payasvini and the Kritamala - all from Tamilnadu - are the most holy
rivers. And those who drink from these waters become devotees of Lord
Vasudeva.
2. Bhagavatam 4.28.29-30 : Puranjana marries a Pandya king and gives birth to
seven Dravidas.
3. The elephant in the eighth Skandha was king Indradyumna from the Pandya
country.
4. King Satyavrata of Dravida desa got the fish-incarnation while he was
bathing in the river Kritamala.
5. The description of hills and rivers in India begins from those in South
India (5.19.onwards).
I got these from a book on the Bhagavatam - don't remember which one - and the
author says,"These passages seem to have been written by someone who was proud
of the southern region".
More on the subject by George Hart:
------------------
One of the most intriguing contributions of the Tamil area to Sanskrit
is the Bhagavatapurana. It is pretty universally agreed that it was
written by a Tamilian and that it is filled with motifs and themes from
the Divyaprabandha and other Tamil literature. Its author also uses
"Vedic" forms -- sometimes incorrectly! -- to try to make it sound old
and hoary. This work has catalyzed Bhakti movements all over India and
is, arguably, one of the most important works in the Sanskrit language.
An example of a Tamilism is the word avamocana, "inn." This occurs
nowhere else in Sanskrit -- it is clearly a translation of Tamil viTuti.
------------------
Moreover, consider this from the Padma Purana, Uttara Kanda, chapters 193-198:
-----------------------------------------
Parvati requests Shiva to narrate to her the glory of the Srimad Bhagavatam,
which is regarded as the greatest among all the puranas. Lord Shiva recounts
the dialogue between Suta and Saunaka wherein the Bhagavatam is glorified by
Suta to Saunaka...Suta narrates this story to Suanaka:
...Narada (seeing a girl who is fanned by hundreds of women),"Who are you?
Who are these ladies with lotus-like eyes? Oh good lady! Tell me in details the
cause of your misery."
The girl replied,"I am known as Bhakti. these two who are by name "spiritual
knowledge" and "renunciation", are regarded as my sons. These have become aged
and worn out due to passage of time...I was born in the Dravida land and grew
up to maturity in Kanrataka. At some places in Maharashtra I was respected, but
after coming to Gujarat I became old and decripit...but on reaching Vrindavana,
I became rejunuvated, and endowed with enviable beauty. Thus I appear quite
young with a lovely form. But these two sons of mine who are suffering great
anguish, have slept due to fatigue... Why should I look young and my sons aged?
How did this unnatural inversion take place?..."...
Narada,"...The present age is dominated by the terrible Kali..."
-----------------------------------------
The most important thing to note here is that the girl Bhakti
(a personification of Bhakti or devotion) is born in Tamilnadu. I think
it may be because the Bhakti songs of the Alvars are acknowledged to be
the first intensely emotional devotional poetry in all Indian literature.
Could Veda Vyasa really have been a Tamilian? Perhaps. In the Mahabharata, he
is said to have dark skin, hence the name,"Krishna Dvaipayana".
^^^^^^^
-Kartik
