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[..]
I profusely apologize if I have been impolite while discussing this topic.
I shall try and correct the misunderstandings which have crept in from my
earlier postings in this present posting of mine, which may be my last one in
this thread.
> In your assertion - "No doubt the Gita recognizes the important
> of work obligations" you appear to agree that "Actions are inevitable."
> Your discussion also reinforces this them. When you accept that actions
> are inevitable then there are no excuses for rejecting the redundant
> second part - "excuses are unforgivable." There can be no excuses if
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> when we recognize the importance of completing an action!
All of us are prompted to do Karma by our nature (Gita 3.33). But we have to
strive not to let our senses conquer ourselves (Gita 3.34). The Gita and the
Brahma Sutra both say that all sin (including future ones) can be
burned up by the fire of GYAna. Sins are forgiven if one does the
praayashchitta japa without the thought "I am doing the japa." This is the
view of advaita vedanta, and I am sure all religions have different views
regarding expiation from one's sins.
(One of the central tenets of Christianity is to ask forgiveness of one's sins.
"Lord Jesus, have mercy on me" is a regular prayer for some Christian sects.)
> Your
> discussions do indicate that you have a good understanding of Gita and I
> request you express your own thesis. All of us can benefit more if you
> divert your energy and time to write and present another version of the
> Essence of Gita from your own perspective!
I do not believe that I am eligible to write on the essence of the Gita.
When even geniuses like Shankara and Ramanuja disagree, I cannot even dream
of attempting such an endeavour.
[..]
> Finally, let me try to explain the subtle message of Gita as
> expressed in my assertion. The central theme of my article is to assert
> that Gita is a manual for both spiritual and material life.
I might have agreed with you if you had said "Mahabharata" instead of the
"Gita." The Mahabharata is a treatise on dharma (virtue), artha (wealth),
kama (pleasure) and moksha (salvation). The Gita is the "moksha shastra"
portion of the Mahabharata which deals *exclusively* with salvation. Which
is why Shankara and Ramanuja and others, who are interested in the salvation
of souls, comment on the Gita, and quote the rest of the Mahabharata only on
rare occassions.
[..]
> I agree that Gita is not meant to be a manual for success or
> failure.
Thank you for your agreement on this point.
[..]
> > ...... No. I do not consider myself an intellectual debater who
> > has a perfect understanding of the Gita. I'm only trying to
> > understand the Gita a little better, that's all.
> ....................................
> It is not your word but your actions determine whether you are
> an intellectual debater or otherwise. Your discussions in the last two
> postings strongly indicate that you are an intellectual debater!
Let me recapture what you said in your earlier posting:
---------------------
This message is
not just for Arjun but for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, teachers,
warriors, computer programmers and particularly for intellectual debaters
like me and Kartik! We the debaters seem to believe that our point of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
view is the only way and that everyone else is necessarily wrong!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
---------------------
You qualified what you meant by "intellectual debaters" by implying that they
are people who "believe that their point of view is the only way and that
everyone else is necessarily wrong" -- which is untrue in my case, for I most
certainly do not consider all other views necessarily wrong. That is why I said
that "I do not consider myself to be an intellectual debater who has perfect
understanding of the Gita" -- to mean that I did not believe that I alone had
the correct understanding of the Gita and that everyone else was wrong.
I humbly agree with many of the great interpreters of the Gita.
I hope I have made myself clear now.
[..]
> > ...... Gita (2.48):
> > "Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment
> > to success or failure. Such equanimity is called yoga." ..........
> > (Translation by BBT, used with permission)
>
> This verse does confirm that one has to believe and practice
> their stipulated duties. It confirms that actions are inevitable. The
> destination for success comes automatically when one develops an attitude
> to abandon the fruits of an action. Such attitudes are developed from
> basic beliefs with dedication, determination, discipline and practice. If
> one does not believe that "Actions are inevitable" they will look for all
> sorts of excuses to postpone the action (Arjun attempted to do exactly
> the same mistake!). This verse is a beautiful illustration for the path
> to success! According to Gita we will be more successful when we
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> concentrate our efforts to complete the duties instead of fantasizing
> success or failure.
If you define "success" as "spiritual success," I concur. But if you mean
success in the material world, I disagree. For as I have quoted in my earlier
postings, there is no encouragement in the Gita to strive for material success,
nor any promise of such.
> The Seers who crossed beyond the human intelligence and wrote
> the Upanishads were able to see no difference between Niguna (Nirvana)
> and Sarguna (Total Bliss) Brahman.
nirguNa (without attributes) and saguNa (with attributes) Brahman are concepts
which are explained in detail in advaita Vedanta. This does not mean that
Brahman itself is in two forms. It only means that Brahman appears as saguNa
from the conventional level of reality (vyAvahArikasatya). In the dvaita
system of Vedanta, there is no treatment of such differences. There is only
Brahman with infinitely many good attributes.
> Let me take this opportunity to thank Kartik because he gave me
> the opportunity to think, react and clarify my view points on this
> important topic.
>
I thank you for the same.
> Ram Chandran
>
>
Regards,
Kartik
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