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On Mar 11, 10:38am, Bon Giovanni wrote:
> Subject: Re: Dharma/Bhakti and Avatar
>
>
> Namaste,
>
> Thank you Sri Shah for your comments to Yogesh.
>
> >But, the Gita also explains that Dharma is not the ultimate.
>
> 1: Since the LORD is Dharma Incarnate, I am not sure what you mean;
> please elucidate?
> -------------------------------------
I will tell you what my Guru has told me.
The whole Bhagvat Gita can be summed up in one word.
That word is Yes. Arjun had to just say yes and follow the wishes of
Krishna Bhagwan. This is what the whole Bhagvat Gita is. It is Krishna
Bhagwan explaining to Arjun why he should say "Yes".
What the Bhagvat Gita does is show what kind of an association Arjun had
with Krishna. We want to have that kind of association with God.
>
> >Krishna Bhagwan asked Arjun to do some things that some might say is
> >against Dharma.
>
> 2: What `things' do you mean?
> -------------------------------------
I will give an example that was brought up by a young kid in our
religious group.
He believed that when Krishna Bhagwan caused an eclipse to occur while
the battle between the Kauravs and Pandavs was going on just to save
Arjun, HE (Krishna) cheated. (The question is somewhat more complicated
than this, but I would have to go into depth on the Bhagwat Gita for
this. So, if you have good knowledge of the Mahabharat you might
understand this question better)
What my guru said to him was that why do you want to be a lawyer against
God. You should be a lawyer of God. Further explanation into this was
discussed by our group, but it is much too long to type here.
>
> >What God tells you to do IS Dharma - no matter what it is.
>
> 3: I have heard many people say that, and each time consider it. In fact I
> think about that matter rather often, for in one sense I agree, but in
> another hesitate. For example, when the Jewish patriarch Abraham was told
> by a voice to KILL YOUR SON AS AN OFFERING TO GOD, Abraham prepared his
> son for that death.
>
> One part of me says that is genuine obedience to the Divine, and another
> part of me says that is so stupid! Why listen to any voices that urge
> violence on others?
>
> Perhaps GOD would have been happier if Abraham had shown the
> self-confidence to say NO, and thus show that DHARMA is in fact more
> sacred than any `voice of GOD'-- since voices can be imagined!
>
> After all, it is possible that when one `hears' the Divine Voice,
> it is only Ravana using the form of Rama in order to seduce...
>
> Too, I have seen religious people do immoral acts, such as murder,
> theft, etc, because `GOD TOLD' them to do it, and so I shudder when
> men say as you have: "*whatever* GOD tells you to do is dharma."
>
> I believe it is the duty of the sadhak to obey the conscience, so even if
> GOD HIMSELF says `disregard your conscience' I think one should say NO
> SIR! and instead follow the conscience. Who knows, but that may please
> Him more than mere submission to His `command' ?
>
> I realize the danger in that stance, since ego could take over there just
> as easily as in imagining GOD speaks to one, but suggest following the
> conscience is far more appropriate than utter obedience without question--
> at least it is more appropriate at my stage of sadhana.
>
> Hence if my spiritual master tells me to do a thing that I find immoral, I
> will touch His Feet and say "No, Lord, I will not." If my guru then kicks
> me or praises me, it is of no matter, since I have done what my heart
> tells me is correct. If GOD wants more of me than that, then He must
> give me greater wisdom so that my conscience agrees with Him.
>
> I do realize however, that what one will actually do should GOD
> SPEAK to one, is best decided at the time, not in advance. Perhaps
> discussions like this can at least provide courage for that moment.
What I am talking of here is not "voices of God". This was Krishna
Bhagwan physically there -- talking with Arjun on the battlefield.
Krishna Bhagwan even revealed his true form to Arjun.
I agree with you completely that many people use this as an excuse to
commit murder, etc.
I am not saying that you should believe "voices in your head" that you
think are God's voice. This "voice" might actually be your inherent
nature or your own feelings.
For example, if there is someone that you love and trust with all of
your heart, you will do what they ask. This is because you love,trust,
and know them so well that you know 100% that they are only looking out
for your best wishes. You know that they will never ask you to do
anthing wrong and only things for your benefit.
You said that if your spiritual master tells you to do a thing that you
find immoral, you will touch His Feet and say "No, Lord, I will not."
Well, what if you have such a trust, love, faith, with your spiritual
master that you KNOW 100% that he would never ask you to do something
wrong or that will cause harm to you in any way. If you believe that
your spiritual master has a constant and continuous association with God
(your spiritual master speaks and walks with God in him), then there is
no chance of him taking you down the wrong path.
But, of course this requires such a spiritual master (guru) that is
above the 3 gunas and is Ekantik. To accept anyone as a spiritual master
and have blind faith in him would be ludicrous. What I meant was that
Arjun had (physically) met Krishna Bhagwan and came to have complete
faith that HE is GOD.
I hope you understand what I was trying to say, I know somethings might
sound a little vague.
God Bless.
Jai Shree Krishna.
Jai Ram.
Jai Swaminarayan.
>
> Thanks for hearing my opinion.
>
> All best wishes
>
> *+*
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7284
>
>-- End of excerpt from Bon Giovanni
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